Quiz 31-A person asking by divination for his own illness.

[Tientai ✝️]

Tientai ...

[Phoenix]

Hi Tientai,

Thanks for so many cases you shared so far. I'm happy to learn from them.

For this 31st case, i guess the person thinks so much about his illness. It looks like very bad in winter. But when spring come, he'll feel better. In summer, when wu & wei get out of void, the illness would be healed.

I assume it is not just an influenza which made him doing a divination,  so i count in months. But if it is, he'll get well on wei day.

[JLim]

Hi Tientai, is it possible to specify the question? Is he asking about the seriousness of the illness, or life expectancy, or is the current doctor helping with cure, or is he asking which organ is ailing, or when can he be cured? Etc. etc.

What about the age of the person (roughly)? 

[Tientai ✝️]

Hi Tientai, is it possible to specify the question? Is he asking about the seriousness of the illness, or life expectancy, or is the current doctor helping with cure, or is he asking which organ is ailing, or when can he be cured? Etc. etc.

What about the age of the person (roughly)?

Ancient text is very brief on its description... !!
0. Yongshen -Useful God is Shi /Self line ....
1. The person that makes divination is Male.  But don't know if is old.
2. He is father and lives in a family.
3. The reason making divination is becouse is serious sick.
4. The case example in Wild Crane book focus on quality status of Yuan Shen "Primordial God"
5. The factor of time is in search (When he could be healed or /when he could be died !!)

..I think gave some help..
Tientai

[JLim]

0. Yongshen -Useful God is Shi /Self line ....
4. The case example in Wild Crane book focus on quality status of Yuan Shen "Primordial God"

a.  Third Self line is weak by Month but strong by Day
b.  Yuan Shen is Fifth line Shen Metal that produces Self line
c.  Fourth line Wu Fire has a hidden movement 暗動.  Because it's produced by First line Mao Wood, and clashed by Zi Day
d.  Such hidden movement is not auspicious, because Wu Fire overcomes Shen Metal, the favorable Yuan Shen
e.  Chou Month is better than Yin Month, because Chou Earth (although it's a Metal Tomb) protects Shen Metal
f.   If he cannot get cured in Chou Month, then in Yin Month things are not looking good.  Because Yin Month is the Month Break 月破 for Shen

[Tientai ✝️]

ANSWER OF QUIZ

 
自占病，世為用神，
in case he divines his own illness, the Shi Self line is taken as Useful God [Yongshen],
世爻亥水，子日拱之，又得申金元神動、而相生，乃不死之症。
Shi Self line is Hai water, all Zi water day all these happened, by getting Shen Metal as Primordial God [Yuanshen] moving line, as engended [Xiang] (from month branch)and born [Sheng ] [.. from changed line], therefore will not die from this disease.
獨疑申金墓於丑月，其不能生乎？
Only there is suspicion that Shen metal goes to tomb in the Chou Monthly EB,
請伊母再占一卦，
requesting his mother to make divination once more another Hexagram.


母占子，子孫為用神。
A Mother makes divination for her child, then Offspring is the Useful God [Yongshen ].
丑土子孫，雖逢月建，不宜動化寅木回頭之剋，目下無妨，交春木旺土衰，必死。
In Chou earth there is Offspring, even though meeting with the same Month EB, is not suitable [this line ] that is moving and change to Yin wood for it turn back and hurt [source line Chou earth ].At present there is not any harm, When Spring season begins Wood will be Prosperous [Wang ] and Earth in decline [Shuai ], certainly will die.
又合前卦亥水世爻，得申金元神相生，寅月沖去申金，則危矣。
Again joining the first Hexagram’s Hai water in Shi self line, and getting the Shen metal Primordial God [Yuanshen moving line] that engended [Xiang] (from month branch)and born [Sheng.. from changed line ], when Yin wood month comes there is a month Clash law [Chong, Break ] with Shen metal, that expressing Danger.
果卒於交春之日。Indeed died one day in Springtime .
大凡占病，一家俱可代占，合而決之，生死之月日可知矣。
Generally on divination for illness, any member of family can be used [by asking and making new divination ], and all (informations) gathered for taking decisions, for life and death the day and month must be certain to Know.
故卦宜多占，斷禍福而更穩。
The reason why is proper when getting a Hexagram to make many divinations, is for further steadiness when facing with Disaster and Happiness.
前卦申金元神，動而生世，當許申日退災。
In the initial hexagram there is Shen metal Primordial God [Yuanshen], moving and producing Shi self line, is proper to promise that on Shen metal day that disaster can retreat.
因見後卦丑土子孫變寅木之剋，寅月必危，始悟寅月沖去申金則危矣。
The reason is in the second hexagram that Chou earth Offspring moving line change to Yin wood that returns to hurt [Chou earth ], so Yin Wood month will be dangerous, only then will be aware when the law of Yin wood EB month Clash [Chong, Break ] with Shen metal that expressing Danger.

[Tientai ✝️]

a.  Third Self line is weak by Month but strong by Day
b.  Yuan Shen is Fifth line Shen Metal that produces Self line
c.  Fourth line Wu Fire has a hidden movement 暗動.  Because it's produced by First line Mao Wood, and clashed by Zi Day
d.  Such hidden movement is not auspicious, because Wu Fire overcomes Shen Metal, the favorable Yuan Shen
e.  Chou Month is better than Yin Month, because Chou Earth (although it's a Metal Tomb) protects Shen Metal
f.   If he cannot get cured in Chou Month, then in Yin Month things are not looking good.  Because Yin Month is the Month Break 月破 for Shen

 

I agree with Master@JLim. .. is totally correct on this quiz .. many thanks for desiphering. ..

I would add some helpful quotations :
1.  The initial Hexagram 13 and producted one 56 both are in Li palace ... this is bad when reffering with "tomb" or "returning soul "
2. The last Hexagram 30 is also in Li palace and "fate"  with Liu Chong or 6 Clash ... that means that there wouldn't be any recovery ...!!
Your opinions please ...
Tientai

[JLim]

Hi Tientai,

I agree with Master@JLim. .. is totally correct on this quiz .. many thanks for desiphering. ..

I would add some helpful quotations :
1.  The initial Hexagram 13 and producted one 56 both are in Li palace ... this is bad when refering to "tomb" or "returning soul "

I don't follow this rule, because I mainly analyze the hexagram using the Six Lines or Liu Yao system. Anyway, Returning Soul hexagram for an illness does not necessarily result in death.  For example this: Quiz 2 -A man asked Yijing about his wife's illness --> result is wife was cured!

[Tientai ✝️]

I don't follow this rule, because I mainly analyze the hexagram using the Six Lines or Liu Yao system. Anyway, Returning Soul hexagram for an illness does not necessarily result in death.  For example this: Quiz 2 -A man asked Yijing about his wife's illness --> result is wife was cured!

But on this example in quiz 2 .... [Gathering Together-Inner-Zhen-Gua - 45  as initial Hexagram
Holding Together-Return Soul-Tomb-Kun-Gua - 8 as produced Hexagram ]... don't share the same palace ... the first is Zhen Gua  and the produced is Kun Gua ... so this principle is not fulfilled...

This is an optional on checking.... I found this accidentally ..
Here is an example for Qian Gua ...

Or


Tientai

[JLim]

But on this example in quiz 2 .... [Gathering Together-Inner-Zhen-Gua - 45  as initial Hexagram
Holding Together-Return Soul-Tomb-Kun-Gua - 8 as produced Hexagram ]... don't share the same palace ... the first is Zhen Gua  and the produced is Kun Gua ... so this principle is not fulfilled...

Some correction...  The first or base hexagram belongs to to Dui Palace, and not Zhen Palace.
The produced or changed hexagram belongs to Kun Gua, that's correct.
I wasn't aware that they have to be in the same palace for the rule of Returning Soul hexagram type to be valid.

What I follow are the Six Lines rules. You may observe more illness and death cases to make a conclusion about the hexagram type, which I know is not part of Six Lines of Liu Yao.

[Tientai ✝️]

.. yes Your observation is very valuable ...!!
I don't insist on this ... perhaps one inch inclination on the start will be many miles deviation after some time ... !!

I must correct the app. Once again ... Gathering Together-Inner-Zhen-Gua - 45 .. is Dui Gua

Thank you
Tientai

[JLim]

Something interesting to note! In both divinations, the Officer lines in the base hexagram are the same: Officer+Tiger+Hai Water in the Li Palace.  We know that Officer gives a hint on the nature of illness.  Li is Fire = blood, infection.  White Tiger also pertains to injury or cut.  Could it be that he had a serious wound that led to blood loss and infection?  In ancient times, injuries like this could be detrimental to life because antibiotics were not well developed yet.

[Phoenix]

hi all,

i missed milion miles from the right answer

when i saw the hexagram, i noted in sibling line bcoz i ever read that in illness divination it can represent immunity. then i thought if only fire became stronger, the disease (officer line) couldn't overcome it anymore :p

thanks for another lesson anyway

[Sacrar]

This case study is a bit puzzling. The diviner uses a somewhat unusual framework.

One asks for oneself:
- in questions of illness the Officer is usually the illness.
- The Officer is sitting in the Subject line. The illness is ongoing, therefore it is logical that it is seated in the Subject line.
- If the Officer is the disease, the Asset engenders the Officer, the Sibling controls the Asset, the Child controls the Officer.
- If this framework were used it would change the reading completely.

So it seems that the frame of reference sticks to the Subject being the Yong shen, and the Officer sitting on the line is obviated. But if the officer is obviated, what six kin represents the disease? One would say, what attacks the subject line is the disease. But it turns out that it is the Offspring who attacks the subject line, and the Offspring usually means cure, remedy, health...


is related to what was discussed here:
When Ji Shen is sitting in the Subject line
https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=958.0