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Author Topic: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings  (Read 1829 times)

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Offline Gmuli

Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« on: October 06, 2018, 01:26:14 PM »
The idea here is that once we have Hexagram if it is with only one changing line(or even if it isn't), there are many different approaches we can take to reading it. And sometimes the results may be different.
While in general I get we use whatever feels more suited to the task, however often we can see contradicting info from different systems.
Many example with changing line that is "returning to control" on Ti, yet text from the Wings is very beneficial or the Trigram relations seems good...


Lets say we have someone asks a question. Its their question and they make it by throwing coins.
Now, lets say they get Hexagram with 1 changing line.
If we look at relations between the Trigrams, or we look at the lines, or we read the texts from the Wings.
However combining all this at times can be challenging as it is much info at the same time.
As they didn't knew what system they were using when asking they can't really figure out what system will be more suited to reading it.

So I wonder... How do members work with that?Does some system have priority for you, and if yes why. As there are many possible ways, for example lines - stronger message then Trigrams relations, or Text stronger then lines etc.
Or you just use Liu Yao and don't look at the other stuff.
Or you just work with intuition, whatever feels more suited to reading it at the time.


The whole idea of how we do the synchronizations between all the different ways of reading a Hexagram. As if we got to WWG, we probably already know other approaches at least a little.

This comes with another question connected to it, lets say  we made a hexagram with Mei Hua static info, do we make adjustment to read it with Liu Yao...

Offline JLim

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Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 03:22:38 PM »
Lets say we have someone asks a question. Its their question and they make it by throwing coins.
Now, lets say they get Hexagram with 1 changing line.
If we look at relations between the Trigrams, or we look at the lines, or we read the texts from the Wings.
Gmuli, may I ask you what the "Wings" is? Could you give an example of the textual interpretation for this case Quiz 32- A young sister make divination for elder brothers official affair....?  This is a hexagram with 1 changing line: Stagnation changing to Contention.  The outcome turned out to be favorable because the elder brother got to go free.
Or you just use Liu Yao and don't look at the other stuff.
Yes! This is what I do nowadays.
Quote
As they didn't knew what system they were using when asking they can't really figure out what system will be more suited to reading it.
In forums people often use line texts to discuss the outcome of the divination.  They believe in the Text as "the right system", but anyhow I still use Liu Yao to analyze the whole hexagram and ignore the line texts.
Quote
...As if we got to WWG, we probably already know other approaches at least a little.
Yes, you're right, I used quite a lot of Meihua (Plum Blossom) before Wen Wang Gua or Liu Yao.  But now my approach is almost always Liu Yao.

Offline Gmuli

Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2018, 04:02:08 PM »
I very much agree, in this specific case.

Partially I very much agree with the idea, after all a lot more info in Liu Yao potentially...
Still sometimes I find some nuances there(in translations) that I miss otherwise... For example lets look at hexagram 55 with changing line 6.

         ▅▅ ▅▅Xu+Earth(Officer)    >>>>>    ▅▅▅▅▅Si-Fire(Asset)
       Ti▅▅ ▅▅Shen+Metal(Parent)               ▅▅ ▅▅Wei-Earth(Officer)
         ▅▅▅▅▅Wu+Fire(Asset)                       ▅▅▅▅▅You-Metal(Parent)
         ▅▅▅▅▅Hai-Water(Sibling)                   ▅▅▅▅▅Hai-Water(Sibling)
 Yong▅▅ ▅▅Chou-Earth(Officer)                 ▅▅ ▅▅Chou-Earth(Officer)
         ▅▅▅▅▅Mao-Wood(Child)                     ▅▅▅▅▅Mao-Wood(Child)
Day Pillar: 9.Ren/9.Shen Monkey ,Month Pillar: 8.Xin/10.You Rooster, Date:10/7/2018 11:13:50 AM
55.Feng Abundance Fullness >>>> 30.Li The Clinging Fire
Hidden Line: None

Here if we read the lines it seems like line 6 is moving to produce itself. Meanwhile is producing Ti.
This seems very favorable.
Yet the text from Wilhelm and the wings seems awful:
Quote
Six at the top means:
 His house is in a state of abundance.
 He screens off his family.
 He peers through the gate
 And no longer perceives anyone.
 For three years he sees nothing.
 Misfortune.
 
 This describes a man who because of his arrogance and obstinacy attains the opposite of what he strives for. He seeks abundance and splendor for his dwelling. He wishes at all odds to be master in his house, which so alienates his family that in the end he finds himself completely isolated.

I can think of some other examples. Often the text seems to be very similar to what the lines show, from my point of view, but at times like this the difference is very noticable. And if we already know the text for a specific line, can be difficult to use Liu Yao on a familiar line and considering it beneficial.

Of course the text doesn't consider Day and Month of asking, but in it there are nuances that I can't find in the lines, like in this example.

Wings... Well, the text that comes with the lines is from the 10 wings, people view them as Confucian commentaries on the original system Zhouyi, although I don't agree that all of them are part of Confucianism(8th wing for example seems much more related to daoism/taoism, in my view).
When it comes to Yi Jing, reading using the commentaries is very popular on the west(relatively - still almost no one would have heard of it, but at least sometimes people have), while Liu Yao isn't yet, probably because there are very few good books, about it in English and they aren't sold in amazon. Also it does need to be somewhat familiar with the Chinese Calendar.
In general I meant 10 wings = translations and commentaries for changing line we can find in many books on the west.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Wings

Thanks for joining. : )

Offline JLim

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Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2018, 04:32:29 PM »
Here if we read the lines it seems like line 6 is moving to produce itself. Meanwhile is producing Ti.
This seems very favorable.
In Liu Yao it's not necessarily favorable.  It depends on many factors.  If we only look at the Sixth Line Officer changing to Asset (Wealth), then:
-  if we look at job promotion, then it's favorable; often there is salary increase too.
-  if we look at illness, then it's unfavorable; the illness gets worse over time

Offline Gmuli

Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2018, 07:11:14 PM »
Here if we read the lines it seems like line 6 is moving to produce itself. Meanwhile is producing Ti.
This seems very favorable.
In Liu Yao it's not necessarily favorable.  It depends on many factors.  If we only look at the Sixth Line Officer changing to Asset (Wealth), then:
-  if we look at job promotion, then it's favorable; often there is salary increase too.
-  if we look at illness, then it's unfavorable; the illness gets worse over time

True. In some questions and some days it can be very unfavorable. But my idea was isn't there some info in the translations that isn't in the lines.
As in favorable and non favorable days translation text will stay the same giving the idea they thought it was encompassing enough to be used for many questions and seasons.

Offline JLim

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Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 05:27:16 AM »
As far as I know, the line texts do not recognize any season, so I would not know how to look at strength/favorability/vitality of a line.  Since a line represents a person/matter/object, strength is important in analyzing auspiciousness.

Offline ren

Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 06:27:38 AM »
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"You and I Are Disappearing" Yusef Komunyakaa

Offline JLim

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Re: Liu Yao, Mei Hua and the 10 Wings
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 11:53:17 AM »
There is a popular Chinese Metaphysics (CM) forum called longyin.net.  It means "hidden dragon", with most members from China (usually mainland).  As of now, this is the number of posts today in just a few boards there:

周易八卦算命 今日: 219 (Liu Yao)
生辰八字算命 今日: 217 (Bazi Life Reading)
四柱命理研究 今日: 167 (Bazi Research)
梅花易数算命 今日: 13   (Mei Hua)

Liu Yao is the most popular board there!  The trend is always like that in this forum of 576 thousand members. 

 

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