Why Doesn't The Bazi Seasons Change For People Born In The Southern Hemisphere?

[Rapanui]

What Master Heluo says:
http://9starki-4pillarsbazi-fengshui-heluo.com/feng-shui-for-southern-hemisphere-24-solar-terms-%e4%ba%8c%e5%8d%81%e5%9b%9b%e7%af%80%e6%b0%a3/
 

[Tientai ✝️]

[Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]

[Gmuli]

Fair enough, but Joey Yap isn't using True Solar Time as well. : )
All of this we have been through in the other forums and we have talked about Heluo articles and everything else...
I get reposting all of it may be good idea for new members, but I personally don't see the point of saying the same stuff over and over again.
I personally still haven't seen any explanation why when the Solar Terms are based on the Solstices and Equinoxes(what the Solar Longitude is divided by), the seasons shouldn't be inverted.

When that question comes up the only response I have seen so far is posting some article of a person that things chart shoulnd't be inverted. Yes, we know there are a lot of those and we have read them and talked about many of them before... Doesn't really answer the question, however...

And there are many articles and people all over the world saying one or the other... We can post as many as we want, if someone meanwhile finds some explanation why seasons(Solstices/Equinoxes) doesn't matter for month branch, I will be more then happy to read.

[Tientai ✝️]

I want to add something more ... and reffering for Bazi only..

This kind of fortune telling art is based on "calculating the time / time counter " with 60 binomials (circles ) ..
Has ancient origin and started from Huang Ti Emperor 2696 B.C.. .
The years are calculating on a continue  linear basis of 60 binomials ..
Months also follow this 60 s ..
Days again following coniniusly this linear basis of 60 s.
Hours .. as well. .

So if now due to difference of hemispheres change this "time counter"  and invent another parallel to original .. we make mistake on time calculation ...
We confuse the continuous basis of time calculation with another one that we try to replace the 60 month binomial with another one .!!
Is absurd to believe that there are two time counters in existence.  One for the north hemisphere and another for the southern ...!!
Again Bazi is calculating the good and bad luck and choices from the time of birth .. not focus on the seasonal climate but takes account the shift weather abnormalities ..!!
...
Tientai

[Gmuli]

There was a whole thing with a change in the calendar where they had problems with a specific Emperor and some scientists(well, monks really, but in that case we can say it was scientists) from the western world few centuries ago. The question came up to who can calculate the solstice more accurately and they did better... I don't remember the whole story, shouldn't be difficult to find. But the day is continues, that is shared with the moon calendar as well, but the months are different.

Considering in his QMDj/JMDJ book Jack Chiu says similar change was made in Tang Dynasty I guess that was the timeframe.
After the calendar change now they reflect the movement of the Sun in the Solar Calendar, I have searched a lot never found out how it was calculated before.
It is one of the reasons people say Chai Bu count is more accurate, as the whole base is different now when it comes to the months. But more on that in that post in that topic.

So in that sense, while the day 60 jia/zi is a stream that goes back very very far, the months in the way we view them today aren't very old. Tang Dynasty was 618–907(still old of course, but in comparison with the day - very recent).

Anyway, that same reasoning we can use for using Chinese time everywhere. If we use local time(solar or not), it suggest we are making changes in very old and very well established system, no matter if it is about the months or not. 

[JLim]

MY OWN EXPERIENCE WITH SOUTHERN PEOPLE:

Indonesia is big enough to encompass two hemispheres, roughly half of the people are in the North and the other half in the South.  I am an Indonesian, with Indonesian clients coming 50% from the North and 50% from the South.

I do not invert the month pillar when a client is born in the South, and my current city happens to be located in the South too.  In general, I don't see any problems interpreting their Bazi charts without inversion.  In fact, when I test a few charts by inverting the month pillar, I get confused with my own analysis. 

And as most of you here know, I do use True Solar Time. 

[JLim]

So if now due to difference of hemispheres change this "time counter"  and invent another parallel to original .. we make mistake on time calculation ...
We confuse the continuous basis of time calculation with another one that we try to replace the 60 month binomial with another one .!!
Is upsurb to believe that there are two time counters in existence.  One for the north hemisphere and another for the southern ...!!
Again Bazi is calculating the good and bad luck and choices from the time of birth .. not focus on the seasonal climate but takes account the shift weather abnormalities ..!!
...
Tientai

I agree very much with the logic there.  Alas, I also understand the logic of the Southern school, although I don't agree with it. 

Reading your commentary, Tientai, it has just occurred to me that we can also test the Southern school on Liu Yao (Six Lines) hexagrams!  Because Liu Yao is also a predictive system that takes into account the time dimension.  It allows a more direct testing environment, because in Liu Yao we mostly analyze against the Month and Day Branches.  We don't even need to look at the Month or Day Stem. 

The change of the Month Branch can result in a difference of Getting the Month vs. Month Break.  This would often be a huge difference, that's why I said that it's a "more direct testing environment".  I will look at my Liu Yao cases for those clients who were located in the Southern hemisphere when they tossed the coins.  Those will be shared in new topics... 

[JLim]

What Master Heluo says:
http://9starki-4pillarsbazi-fengshui-heluo.com/feng-shui-for-southern-hemisphere-24-solar-terms-%e4%ba%8c%e5%8d%81%e5%9b%9b%e7%af%80%e6%b0%a3/
 

I do know very well that he had extensive experience with South Americans (Latin Americans) before he wrote his Bazi manual.

BTW, any comment from @Voytek our bazi-calculator.com designer, regarding the Southern school of plotting a Bazi chart?

[herut]

But the southern observer would not be experiencing the Winter Solstice, it would be experiencing the Summer Solstice. So, how do the qualities associated with Rat, for example, apply to the Southern Observer during a Rat Month?

.... Frankly speaking my opinion is in accordance to Ancient Chinese thesis and Masters of CM...!!!
Many researches must conduct in this new Age... for Southern Hemisphere.
Very significant is the research of W.K. Chu  in appendix of his book "The astrology of I ching"
.....
Tientai

W.K Chu in the Astrology of I-Ching, he suggests inverting the charts. Actually, he provides a method of inverting going 6 months away from the actual natives birth date if born in the southern hemisphere. Here's an excerpt... " Everyone knows that the Southern hemisphere is the counterpart of the Northern Hemisphere, i.e when it's summer in the north its winter in the south; the circulation of the ocean and windstorm currents are reversed, indicating different influences acting on each area. While the applicable earthly hours remain the same for the same longitude, the point of reference for calculations in the Southern hemisphere must be a point diametrically opposed to the point used in the Northern hemisphere. One of the first things this does is to offset the astrological year by six months from that in the Northern hemisphere, i.e from what we call Summer Solstice to SUmmer SOlstice in the Northern hemisphere to what is known as Winter Solstice to Winter Solstice in the Southern hemisphere, roughly June 22 to June 21"

[Chat time]

Let's say Jia Zi month and we invert it to be Ji Wu month? 甲子 combination became more than 60?

I'm not trying to make it messy over here but let's say I'm born in Indonesia GMT +7 upon writing this message I'm experiencing a Gui Si day and Ji Wei Hour. My friend also born in Indonesia but he's in UK GMT 0. I'm talking on the phone with him and should we be experiencing the same hour Ji Wei or Bing Chen in morning 7:30am for him? 

If you say that it should be Bing Chen for him because he's there, then let me ask you what hour should we experienced while on a flight to L.A? If I were to take tomorrow flight in Singapore non-stop to L.A 28/12/2018 20:45 and arrived again on 28/12/2018 19:55. What day should I be in? Jia Wu or Yi Wei?

[JLim]

Let's say Jia Zi month and we invert it to be Ji Wu month? 甲子 combination became more than 60?

I'm not exactly sure because I don't use the Southern system.  But I think it should be Wu Wu --> Wu Earth Stem over Wu Horse Branch.

Your example of a flight makes me thinking:
-  I take a flight from Singapore (Northern hemisphere).  The Month today is Jia Zi.
-  The flight duration is only 1 hour 45 minutes.
-  I arrive in Jakarta on the same day (Southern hemisphere)
-  Does it mean that I arrive in Wu Wu month?  Wow wow, time really does fly by, doesn't it? 

[Gmuli]

Let's say Jia Zi month and we invert it to be Ji Wu month? 甲子 combination became more than 60?

I'm not exactly sure because I don't use the Southern system.  But I think it should be Wu Wu --> Wu Earth Stem over Wu Horse Branch.

Your example of a flight makes me thinking:
-  I take a flight from Singapore (Northern hemisphere).  The Month today is Jia Zi.
-  The flight duration is only 1 hour 45 minutes.
-  I arrive in Jakarta on the same day (Southern hemisphere)
-  Does it mean that I arrive in Wu Wu month?  Wow wow, time really does fly by, doesn't it? 

Ah, yes. Even more meaningful if that same point wasn't made already at least 4-5 times between all topics in the forums. Even on the previous page by Rapanui.
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=623.msg3622#msg3622

I'm starting to figure out that no one is actually reading what the idea is.  While keep posting the same problems and articles over and over again, even though each of them have been viewed in depth here or in the other forum.

All this is just a waste of time...

[NewMan]

Southern hemisphere is for healing. You go there for fun. Don't need to worry abt bazi just relax 

[Chat time]

All this is just a waste of time...

Fingers are not even in lengths. Some of us might be more difficult to be educated than others.
It's a forum and we are writing for the general public to read, nothing is wasted here.
The more we discuss about this topic, it will let the readers decide whether which beliefs system they choose fits them best.

[Tientai ✝️]

I'm starting to figure out that no one is actually reading what the idea is.  While keep posting the same problems and articles over and over again, even though each of them have been viewed in depth here or in the other forum.

All this is just a waste of time...

i try to give a help using 太玄經  or Tai Xuan Jing making divination with Yarrow Stalks ..!!!
Query : Ιs the classical calculation sequence of the northern hemisphere (for the whole planet) the correct one ?


陽方躆膚赫赫，為物城郭，物咸得度。
Yang is directed to fight [care] for the skin to be brilliant [outstanding],  just as [ caring ] for matters inside a city wall, all matters need a limited degree [time estimation measure].

Decision:
Yang = Borderline
Skin (Outer part)= Southern hemisphere also
Matters inside (Inner part) = Northern Hemisphere
Matters = People’s Birth place / time
Brilliant [outstanding]= correct calculation.
Limited degree = One meter of calculation.

Free judgement :
HEAD: Yang on all sides occupies the outer rim. Awesome and formidable.
it serves as the inner and outer walls for things so that all myriad things receive its protective frame.
Yang ch'i moves to take up residence at the outside of things.
Like a frame or shelter or city wall, it surrounds and protects things, strengthening their defenses so that all things feel “safe at home" under its influence.
As the Changes states. °‘When the house is set in order. the world is set on a firm course"
Until yin grows stronger, the potential for Good seems unlimited.

At the same time. the architectural metaphor suggests that yang ch'i will soon reach its natural limits. Walls and frames are useful constructions, but their firm structure works against open-ended potential.
Also, wide outer frames by definition are inherently weaker than the inner core. where strength can be concentrated.
 As yang ch’i moves to a position at the outer rim. It empties out from the core of Being, leaving behind a vacuum to be filled by yin ch'i. (Compare the description of male as "outer" and female as inner).
Danger lies in neglecting what is fundamental (or inner) while attending to the secondary (or outer).



......
tientai