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Library => Liu Yao => Liu Yao Case Studies => Topic started by: firelink on March 29, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
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I saw sometime the yellow Gou chen animal and some time the yellow QI lin . What is the correct one ? I have learned that it was Gou Chen , as Qi lin is faboulous animal that is here to protect and to do justice. But Gou Chen is curvy like a scorpion idea. Or is there other Qilin with Gou Chen -like aspect ?
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（勾陈）…有暗昧或迟滯之象
Gou Chen: there is an image shadiness or slowness (sluggishness).
I don't know exactly who wrote this contemporary Chinese text, but have seen it in the Internet. I do agree with slowness, but not shadiness. Shadiness belongs more to 玄武 Xuan Wu, which is another Animal.
For example, Gou Chen coming with Wealth can mean "fixed time deposit". Yes, it's an interesting application, isn't it? Imagine the slowness and fixed nature of interest income coming from the money deposited in the bank.
Is it shady income? Not at all. Shady money is something like profits that are obtained in smuggling goods, for example. Totally different!
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I mean usually when you want your house protected , then in Chinese traditionnal culture you can put a Qi Lin statute in a specific place, but I never heard to put a 勾陈 as a protector. therefore I m wondering if they are same animal or not . Because Qi lin is also good omen , mean the emperor is a wise emperor and follow the sagehood , and Qi lin also was put in ancient time in a court , in order to remember that it protect justice too, and never will allow abuse. But 勾陈 seems more abusive in his attitude (like take all and kill all attitude ).
That s why I was confused about Qi lin in some usage in place of 勾陈
the qilin has some aspect like that : (https://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/Qilin.jpg)
(http://d.ifengimg.com/w600/p0.ifengimg.com/pmop/2018/0315/7D295D5441B35BDE0C8A6AE6023FF8599CCF5EA5_size78_w800_h600.jpeg)
and some representation of 勾陈 is like that (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRiJvk0xJ8NNXiSwtNvlSbFKtybRHpR9E_f0j6asNo-PKRtpqFC)
we can see the difference , even if they seems to be from same family
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（勾陈）…有暗昧或迟滯之象
Gou Chen: there is an image shadiness or slowness (sluggishness).
I don't know exactly who wrote this contemporary Chinese text, but have seen it in the Internet. I do agree with slowness, but not shadiness. Shadiness belongs more to 玄武 Xuan Wu, which is another Animal.
For example, Gou Chen coming with Wealth can mean "fixed time deposit". Yes, it's an interesting application, isn't it? Imagine the slowness and fixed nature of interest income coming from the money deposited in the bank.
Is it shady income? Not at all. Shady money is something like profits that are obtained in smuggling goods, for example. Totally different!
Do you think that Qi lin and Gou Chen are same animal or different ?
About Gou Chen , I have seen sometime that it was related to strategic move, and take it all attitude .
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Do you think that Qi lin and Gou Chen are same animal or different ?
About Gou Chen , I have seen sometime that it was related to strategic move, and take it all attitude .
They are different animals, but then for Liu Yao purpose they mean the same. In my previous example, Qi Lin+Wealth can also mean "fixed time deposit". Whether or not the meaning is positive or negative depends on another factor, for example how strong the line is etc.
Strategic move? I would see Teng She (Snake) rather than Gou Chen.
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Do you think that Qi lin and Gou Chen are same animal or different ?
About Gou Chen , I have seen sometime that it was related to strategic move, and take it all attitude .
They are different animals, but then for Liu Yao purpose they mean the same. In my previous example, Qi Lin+Wealth can also mean "fixed time deposit". Whether or not the meaning is positive or negative depends on another factor, for example how strong the line is etc.
Strategic move? I would see Teng She (Snake) rather than Gou Chen.
Yes, totally it was a move from Gou Chen and combine with Teng Sheng , and produce strategic move . Teng Shen produced it , but Gou Chen moved to ask the help of Ten Sheng and they agree of strategic move. Gou Chen was very stubborn and want a take it all attitude. Gou Chen tought that it own strategic move was good , but it wasn't at all , and only think about profit but wasn't wise enough. Gou Chen want take it all but his own strategic move when applied will make lose everything :) that s right :) Teng Sheng strategist , Gou Chen stubborn bad leader with some aggressive attitude because blind by profit :)
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Yes is logical their strategies are nt in accord ..!!
Gou Chen.'s attitude is to move curved and slow just as a worm ..!!
And Teng She movement is jerky and swiftly .. from down or interior to upwards or outwards. .. Just as a flying Snake from earth to the sky !!
... different strategies indeed ...!!
Tt.
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I think the picture of yellow kind of bull/tiger/ with wing represent clearly the aggressive attitude of Gou Chen (before I 'd like to imagine Gou Chen like a scorpio )
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Yes, totally it was a move from Gou Chen and combine with Teng Sheng , and produce strategic move . Teng Shen produced it , but Gou Chen moved to ask the help of Ten Sheng and they agree of strategic move. Gou Chen was very stubborn and want a take it all attitude. Gou Chen tought that it own strategic move was good , but it wasn't at all , and only think about profit but wasn't wise enough. Gou Chen want take it all but his own strategic move when applied will make lose everything :) that s right :) Teng Sheng strategist , Gou Chen stubborn bad leader with some aggressive attitude because blind by profit :)
Actually, I remember a hexagram from the other fivearts forum, where Teng She shows the negative qualities of: wants to take it all, stubborn bad leader wish some aggressive attitude because blinded by profit. That's a Liu Yao divination that I interpreted for ***, regarding some partnership on a medical project. Good thing that the partner - as I expected from the hexagram - left the project afterwards. That partner came with Teng She!
Because I thought Ten She as negative aspect will be not detail oriented enough , assumption without verification etc ..
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A very good question is when we can use and combine in our deciphering the six animals 六神 ?
1. Always ?
2. When there is a reason ?
3. Occasionally ?
4. Depends in our understanding on Liu Yao ?
5. ..?
6. ..?
What you can say ?
...
Tientai
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it s a secondary information, it depends on situation , it s not always usefull . it only complement the understanding, I don't always use it .
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4. Depends in our understanding on Liu Yao ?
Six Animals are very useful in differentiating the Six Kins in more detail, giving us more details of the persons, matters or objects. They also help us in improving the accuracy of the interpretation. It's a pity that the classical books do not discuss them, or only perfunctorily, giving the impression that sometimes they are usable, and sometimes not.
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Next question about six animals 六神 is :
1. Their elements can involve to the strength of the month just as six kins ? .. or can fall any animal in Kong wang?
2. Can we arrange six animals using monthy Heavenly Stem to judge our Hexagram?
..
..
Thanks ..
Tt
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Next question about six animals 六神 is :
1. Their elements can involve to the strength of the month just as six kins ? .. or can fall any animal in Kong wang?
Yes, strength and weakness influences the interpretations of the Six Animal. And Kong Wang too.
2. Can we arrange six animals using monthy Heavenly Stem to judge our Hexagram?
The Monthly Heavenly Stem is not relevant at all. The Day Heavenly Stem is what is used to plot the Six Animals, but that's only for plotting and not interpretation.
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Yes, strength and weakness influences the interpretations of the Six Animal. And Kong Wang too.
An example Please ...!!
we are on spring season with Mao wood monthly EB..
We make a today question ... and place six animals on relevant order on the lines of an Hexagram..
Today is Chen EB /with Wu HS (heavenly stem) ..
so Azure Dragon with its wood as representative element on 5th line .. can we use it (Azure Dragon) indirectly as timely ? ..
And Black tortoise with its water representative element as in prison on the 4th line ? ..
.......
We know right now that monthly EB can influence six kins on lines in an Hexagram. ..
By this question .. we can make more specific steps on using six animals and knowing their strengths.. on another way !!
...
...
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Timeliness of the Six Animal is determined by the Branch that comes with the Six Animal, not by the element of the Six Animal itself.
For example, if the Six Animal on the 5th line is Dragon, and on that line is the Branch You Metal: Dragon is untimely in this month, because Metal is trapped in this month of Mao.
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Timeliness of the Six Animal is determined by the Branch that comes with the Six Animal, not by the element of the Six Animal itself.
For example, if the Six Animal on the 5th line is Dragon, and on that line is the Branch You Metal: Dragon is untimely in this month, because Metal is trapped in this month of Mao.
Thank you Jlim .. I know this is the standard procedure on this subject...
I reffering if there is any influence on representative element on six animal 六神 from monthly EB .. I checked it from an ancient text 斷易天機 - Duan yi tian Ji...
Perhaps this can influence some schools of fortune telling....!! .
That's why I am reffering ...if this proposal is in use or not ...
Tt.
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I reffering if there is any influence on representative element on six animal 六神 from monthly EB .. I checked it from an ancient text 斷易天機 - Duan yi tian Ji...
No, I do not use that influence. That would lead to some inconsistent applications. Six Animal is attached to the Branch, and Branch is the one that has seasonality.
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No entries in english I had found on the internet that describe Gou Chen as enciclopedic way, however, Quilin.
Quilin is a species of Chinese unicorn, and is associated with many different chimeric animals according to the dynasty, but all of them within the family of ungulated animals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungulate
Gou chen (勾陳) is curved array / hooked array / grappling Hook or Yellow dragon, related to Ursa Minor (polar star) and Little Dipper.
http://www.baike.com/wiki/%E5%8B%BE%E9%99%88
Yoep Yap describes it here: https://books.google.es/books?id=zaJJDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA71&lpg=PA71&dq=Gou+Chen+%E5%8B%BE%E9%99%88&source=bl&ots=qu2z3n6XHM&sig=ACfU3U2aBNo6hx4DB9X4kk3rfSrELnzkYg&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjap7fh1qnlAhUly4UKHdSQBGUQ6AEwBnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Gou%20Chen%20%E5%8B%BE%E9%99%88&f=false
I have discovered that in the end all this mythology is reduced to Chinese astrology, celestial bodies, constellations, stars...
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勾陳星辰（陽土Hook Chen Xingchen (yang soil
勾陳（辰）：主田宅、音信、勾連空詐、爭訟打鬥、軍人、
醫生、藥品、屠戶、崗嶺等。
Gou Chen (Chen): The main Tianzhai, the news, the hook, the fight,argument , the military,seize, separation of main official affairs argument.
Doctors, medicines, butchers, Gangling,(post ridge?) etc
The official seal, verify, close the case, detect thieves, objects.
For example, if your car is stolen, Xuanwu and Gouchen will be the first to search.
Wei branch on the domain indicate south an Li- kua says more.
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Continued