Under10Gods I must agree that there is more momentum behind divination done on behalf of or by a group of people. The same is true for other things that may be related to the divination or subsequent measures. The intentions, focus, and other factors personal to each individual certainly exert influence. Then if that is not enough....there's the force that comes from individuals belonging to one lineage! Ba Zi can never be underrated.

I appreciate any feedback regarding my post and thanks for your feedback. I've been studying Qi Men Dun Jia for several years now off and on. To the best of my understanding this ancient system was originally developed to supplement military strategy with legends of Liu Bo Wen being a primary example.

It's only natural that it would and has been developed over time for investigating or observing various phenomena and as a divinatory tool for a wide range of uses. I've found that it's almost impossible to gain proficiency in Qi Men without a firm understanding of Ba Zi Xuan Ming although Qi Men adds various layers which are actually integral to most of the classic sciences.

The dilemma I've encountered recently is regarding the Yong Shen.

The general conversations and descriptions I've found for selecting the Yong Shen involve locating one of the nine stars, eight trigrams, nine deities, eight gates, or 10 stems for use as Yong Shen depending on what's being observed or investigated. Weather, various outcomes, business, seeking employment, invitations, visitors, missing objects and people etc.

When it comes to certain questions however, the Yong Shen is limited to the day stem which represents the querent (person asking the questions). Some teachers use the day stem from the natal Ba Zi to use as the Yong Shen in these situations.

Does that seem a little to broad to anyone else? It's not my intention to challenge long-established and effective procedure. It's definitely not my intention to invent or infuse stuff that's not necessary or even relevant based on what I "think" or "feel". No offense to enthusiasts that do, but those are against my policies.

If any number of people in the same geographic location and time zone, construct a Qi Men chart based on the same |Y|M|D|H|, to see the outcome of a visit, Do they all use the exact same commonly accepted Yong Shen to represent the querent (self) and their visitors??? The processes involved in interpreting the chart would give the same outcomes, same indications, and same conditions. This wouldn't qualify as divination.

Any ideas about specific Yong Shen to represent a querent more accurately? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.