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Author Topic: Quiz 32- A young sister make divination for elder brothers official affair....  (Read 559 times)

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Online Tientai



i correct it ...

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 06:05:56 PM by Tientai »

Offline The-Monk

Seems a bit confusing this prologue.

Did the sister ask about her brothers situation after learning about the situation?

Or did she ask about her brothers run in with the law after he asked her because he was held at the time pending trial?

Or the brother has been caught and is pending judgement and the sister wants to know if the situation is more severe and a harsher punishment expected?

1. Would look at the state of the Sibling line as a primary component.
2. Would look at the Self Line since it is the brother who asked the sister to ask for them.
3. Would look at the Sibling line.

And so on. Hence, context would be needed to analyse more clearly.

Online Tientai

Dear @The-Monk .. you have right ..
The wild crane ancient old man's book of Divination provides these real quiz examples not as historical events that are analysed in the context of Liu yao ... but as examples to the progressive knowledge of several laws that must be known by a student step by step.

So the reffering quiz has little explanation with scarce details of the situation .
Anyway to help on this example  :
1. Yong Shen is Sister's brother
2. Useful component is the existence of fathers role on situation...
3. Although sister is asking about her brother, the self line is still plays a very important role..
4. I think  rather needs time to be safe ( ... pending judgment  )...!!

I think give some help ..
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:24:55 AM by Tientai »

Online JLim

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Anyway to help on this example  :
1. Yong Shen is Sister's brother
So Self line is the sister.
2. Useful component is the existence of fathers role on situation...
This context gives some help: the Self Line Mao combines with Parent Line Xu.  Sister combines with Parent, so it means Xu is their father.   
To the Yong Shen of Shen Metal, this Xu Earth is the Yuan Shen (Source God). 
4. I think  rather needs time to be safe ( ... pending judgment  )...!!
The key thing is whether or not Xu Earth can produce Shen Metal, whether or not their father can help the brother in some way.
3. Although sister is asking about her brother, the self line is still plays a very important role..
I think Xu Earth has more important role.  Mao Wood is non-moving.

Online JLim

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I think the the brother's situation is under control.
The key thing is whether or not Xu Earth can produce Shen Metal, whether or not their father can help the brother in some way.
My take on Xu Earth: Xu Earth gains the strength of Day Chen.  So the clash (also from Chen) is seen as "clash to move".  The non-moving line gets stimulated, almost like a moving line.  The energy is half of a normal moving line.  Xu father helps the brother, but with half the energy.

Second line Chen represents the evidence.  Si Officer is the lawsuit, and Chen is at the same line as Si.  So, Chen clashing Xu coming with Serpent means this lawsuit against the brother actually does not have enough evidence.  In this case, Serpent or Snake means conspiracy against the brother.

I don't use Parent line Chen as the father. Father is Parent line Xu.  How to distinguish multiple lines of the same Six Relations is something important in a Liu Yao analysis.

Online Tientai

ANSWER OF QUIZ


The law that is studied is :
  剋處逢生
 A Dead [Ke ] has a chance to be alive

申金兄爻為用神,巳火鬼動,刑剋申金,重罪定矣。
As Yongshen is the Shen Metal line, the Si Ghost line is moving, hurting by punishing the Shen Metal, so a serious crime is expected.

幸喜辰日衝動戌土父母,暗動生申,{剋處逢生},若有父母,可以救之。
Fortunately on Chen Day Clash Moving [Chong Dong ] Xu earth Parents [6th line ], secretly move can produce Shen [brothers 5th line ], { the Dead [Ke ] has a chance to be born (Sheng - or alive)}, if there is a Parent (Father ),  possible can save [rescue ] him.

後因父年八旬,援例告留免死。
Because Father is on 80 years old, this example say [good fortune ] just in case [Father ] don't die.

Tientai

Online JLim

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ANSWER OF QUIZ

後因父年八旬,援例告留免死。
Because Father is on 80 years old, this example say [good fortune ] just in case [Father ] don't die.
As I wrote before "Xu father helps the brother, but with half the energy."  The brother escaped heavy punishment just because father is 80 years old, and not because father actively did something to save him. 

About the theory part: the Wild Crane does not explain the Kong Wang (Void) part.  The Kong Wang of Xu Earth in this case is fake because it gains the strength from Day Chen.  If the Kong Wang had been real, then clashing it would have made Xu useless.

Online Gmuli

Seems a bit confusing this prologue.

Did the sister ask about her brothers situation after learning about the situation?


1. Would look at the state of the Sibling line as a primary component.


And so on. Hence, context would be needed to analyse more clearly.

Hi.
Very much agree here in practice, however the theory behind it I'm not sure I fully get.

So a question here. : )
This is the part I still have trouble figuring out. In practical example it seems to work like that, we look at Sibling line. If someone ask us to ask for them, then they are on Ti. All this makes sense, the thing I don't get is what is on Yong meanwhile.

In first example she asks about her brother, why isn't he on yong, this is what she asks about and if he isn't then what is actually on Yong?


Offline The-Monk

Quote
All this makes sense, the thing I don't get is what is on Yong meanwhile.

Nothing... and Everything.

Quote
In first example she asks about her brother, why isn't he on yong, this is what she asks about and if he isn't then what is actually on Yong?

Allow me to answer your question another way.

1. If you ask about your neighbours dog wellbeing, what is the Self/Ti?
2. If you ask about your wealth luck for the year, what is the Other/Yong?

Unless it is needed for the information it provides, it is simply Nothing and Everything.

Now back to your question.

3. If we were asking about the brother, and we want to know if the brother would be in trouble. Would Other/Yong work? Would Sibling work?

4. If we were asking about the brothers feelings now they are in trouble. Would Other/Yong work? Would Sibling work?

5. If we were asking about the brother, and we want to know if they are in mortal danger. Would Other/Yong work? Would Sibling work?

5. If we want to know whether the brother still loved their wife now their life is certain to become forfeit. Would Other/Yong work? Would Sibling work?

You should see from these four questions, that there are subtle differences on what the Self/Ti and Other/Yong can encompass compared to the Six Relation representation, sometimes not even being needed. But does it mean they cannot be used in such a fashion?

Does it mean that the Six Relation (Sibling in this case) cannot also be used in the same fashion?

You will find that they both simultaneously represent the question at hand. But one or the other will yield a better way of showing you an answer, depending on what it is you are asking about.

For example. If you are asking about if your brother hates the wife you married last year...

Six Relations Sibling (your brother) always attacks Wealth (your wife) via Five Element theory (that is transposed onto the Six Relations).

So... What do you do here at this point?

I hope that helps.

Online Tientai

Dear @The-Monk .. all ..hi

Many thanks that clearing out this subject of which represents what to decide in answering to a Query.

Many times this kind of errors is the cause of many misconceptions ...
Your help on this issue is invaluable.
Please continue to inspire us ..
Tientai

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