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Author Topic: Super I Ching problems and views  (Read 279 times)

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Online Gmuli

Re: Super I Ching problems and views
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2019, 01:06:12 PM »
I get what you mean... However, to be fair if you are living in Australia, need to learn Ancient Egyptian and there is no other source that you can use that is as good as the AAT(australian aboriginal tribesman) then of course most people will turn there, as there will be no other choice and they may not want to give up the whole idea, if they feel its for them.

There is more to it than simply learning a bad form for your foundation.

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With time if more sources show up things can be advanced, or cleared out etc. But if the decision is "bad source" or "no source" , most people here would aim for "bad source" in my view, as the people that will aim for "no source" even though they are probably the majority on Earth, they wouldn't be in forum for Bazi/WWG, as they wouldn't be trying to learn them...

So if the question is should it be perfect to try it... I don't think we have perfect source for any of these systems in English books currently, so we use what we have...

That is correct, each person will have a prefered source, some more perfect to themselves than others. It is the natural way of things.

However, the end result is almost always the same. Those learning from a bad source, ends up capping their progression early and stifle their ability to advance after each of the natural progression points are reached. Advanced Five Arts has various natural barriers in place that for those without the proper foundation and knowledge, forever scramble during the climb and are unable to get over it.

That is the reason why I strongly advise caution in using Super I Ching as your source. Unless if your goal is only to reproduce Super I Ching "rules" in software form.

I don't have any plans like that. However, my point was the problem is lack of alternative. We say Super I Ching is not a good source for foundation, easy to agree there as its easy to see parts of it doesn't make much sense... But then we see said that Gold Yarrows is not the best source either, then the Wild Crane may not be perfect... All this is fine by itself, but then if the question "ok, what is good" comes up, the answer just can't be silence...

As otherwise the only thing that this will accomplish is push away the few western peoples trying to learn this system. If all material available in English is described as bad and if attempt for finding good source is halted, then the message is clear - don't try to learn this, you can't do it with the info available... And that includes even Chinese sources at times...

And I don't mean specifically you by this, just the approach I see from time to time that seems to be one of the big problems with learning it in the west in my view. But it is the reason why if we look at free material with hundreds of examples and say to not use it, some replacement author/book/course or whatever as recommendation to be nice...
"Огънят гори, луната мига и засега това ни стига."

Online Tientai

Re: Super I Ching problems and views
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2019, 02:00:32 PM »
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Online Tientai

Re: Super I Ching problems and views
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2019, 03:28:19 PM »
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« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 07:37:40 PM by Tientai »

Offline The-Monk

Re: Super I Ching problems and views
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2019, 04:50:40 AM »
I don't have any plans like that. However, my point was the problem is lack of alternative. We say Super I Ching is not a good source for foundation, easy to agree there as its easy to see parts of it doesn't make much sense... But then we see said that Gold Yarrows is not the best source either, then the Wild Crane may not be perfect... All this is fine by itself, but then if the question "ok, what is good" comes up, the answer just can't be silence...

Who is saying nothing but silence?

Golden Yarrows and Wild Crane may be biased and tainted by their own authors and editors in some versions, but the key foundation details will always be largely the same if you read them in Chinese.

Super I Ching does not have this parity with the Chinese sources. It is an edited version (by Alex Chiu) of an edited version (by some other Author) that was translated from one language to another (Chinese to English). Many conclusions are drawn up mistakenly and many interpretation components is unable to be found replicated in the slightest fashion anywhere else. Unlike where if you are lucky enough to have time to browse through Chinese material at a non-taught level, you will eventually find the same foundation components mentioned here and there.

If you or anyone believes the sources in Chinese are unreliable, the reasons for the unreliability is probably more important than the fact that they are unreliable in of itself.

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As otherwise the only thing that this will accomplish is push away the few western peoples trying to learn this system. If all material available in English is described as bad and if attempt for finding good source is halted, then the message is clear - don't try to learn this, you can't do it with the info available... And that includes even Chinese sources at times...

Which Chinese sources?

As explained above, Super I Ching, as an English source, even if compare with Raymond Lo's material very quickly diverges. So non-taught users will have a hard time trying to find what is accurate or not, or what was flat out wrong in the first place. This disparity largely does not exist in Chinese sources due to the abundance of sources available (whatever the quality of the sources may be).

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And I don't mean specifically you by this, just the approach I see from time to time that seems to be one of the big problems with learning it in the west in my view. But it is the reason why if we look at free material with hundreds of examples and say to not use it, some replacement author/book/course or whatever as recommendation to be nice...

Having seen many students fall, I no longer provide such alternative sources, as what is suitable for one person is not suitable for another. Indeed, as my earlier reply, I have seen learners fall because they felt that they were empowered with capability because I provided such sources of information. And when the time came to try to advance their skill and knowledge further, they were unable to do so because they lacked what was right for them.

I am however familiar with many sources (and able to guage snippets of sources that I am not familiar with as to their worth) and can recommend or not recommend various sources assuming you have one that reads well for yourself.

It sounds very unhelpful, but once you reach a certain stage of understanding WWG, you'll recognise that what I am doing is the best way forward for each learner.

Online Gmuli

Re: Super I Ching problems and views
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2019, 07:24:15 AM »
Well... Yea, I get it, its fair I guess... However meanwhile I'm still avoiding Super I Ching and at this point has no idea what to read for WWG as the English sources are not as many as one would want. Not your problem, of course, however I'm sure there are many members in similar situation...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 07:49:47 AM by Gmuli »
"Огънят гори, луната мига и засега това ни стига."

 

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