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Author Topic: About the "Tomb"  (Read 205 times)

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Offline Sacrar

About the "Tomb"
« on: November 01, 2019, 09:10:28 PM »
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:27:48 PM by Sacrar »

Online Gmuli

Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2019, 08:55:05 AM »
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I am not able to understand what this matter of falling into a Tomb is. Whatever the day and month of consultation the resulting line remains in Tomb   :'(

Does it has any relationship with the tomb of the earth's branches?
Quote
Chou is the tomb of metal
Wei is the tomb of wooden
Chen is to tomb of water
Xu is the tomb of fire
Chen is the tomb of earth



Sure.
What the rules are for falling in Tomb in Liu Yao is different in different places.
Currently, I work with the idea that line can fall in the line it changes into. It can fall into day.
And if it falls into the line it changes into, that can be open with clash.

There are many other rules, though, interesting to note were the examples from a profesor posted by Axis some time ago, where the Lines had levels of "mutations" where they had initial movement in the original hexagram,  working with that line can fall into Tomb even without anything moving, just from the existence of that Tomb in the original hexagram it seems.

And there are a lot of other ways.
But the Tombs/Storages are always the same, even in QMDJ or other parts of the Five Arts, and they are what you listed(Chou - Metal, Chen - Earth/Water etc.)

In this example You will fall into Chou in the way I work with it.
Yet as there is Si, You and Chou on lines 1 and 3, that may qualify for the rules for combination The-Monk was using earlier. So does a line fall in tomb if we use that view to combination...

There are many interesting quesiton on that, but as the rules are usually at least a little different in most practitioners, will need to arrive in what works for you, in my view. : )

Online JLim

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Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2019, 02:13:44 PM »
I have only had the chance to read this post thoroughly today.  Two questions:

1) Am I reading the software output wrong or what, but why is the Day Pillar Geng Hai? 
2) And how can Void Branches be Mao and Chen?  This is not possible, either.

Online Gmuli

Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 02:28:40 PM »
I have only had the chance to read this post thoroughly today.  Two questions:

1) Am I reading the software output wrong or what, but why is the Day Pillar Geng Hai? 
2) And how can Void Branches be Mao and Chen?  This is not possible, either.

It allows people to change it manually(as it seems the case).
I was wondering a lot if I should do that, or just restrict to possible pillars, but decided to allow it. Its possible in the bazi app as well, although in there if impossible pillar is selected it will give warning.

The Mao, Chen is because we calculate void branches based on the forumla(11-stem+branch) and if someone chooses impossible pillar it will still try to calculate it.

Here is what it would show if we don't change it manually for that date:



Online JLim

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Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 03:36:35 PM »
In this example You will fall into Chou in the way I work with it.
Yet as there is Si, You and Chou on lines 1 and 3, that may qualify for the rules for combination The-Monk was using earlier. So does a line fall in tomb if we use that view to combination...
Assuming the Day Pillar is Geng Wu and Month Pillar is Geng Xu:
In this hexagram the entombing (falling into Chou) does not occur.  The San He combination (Three Combination) does occur.

By the way, if the entombing occurs, actually there is something special about being entombed into Chou.  That's for another topic...

Offline Sacrar

Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2019, 08:28:25 PM »
I have only had the chance to read this post thoroughly today.  Two questions:

1) Am I reading the software output wrong or what, but why is the Day Pillar Geng Hai? 
2) And how can Void Branches be Mao and Chen?  This is not possible, either.

I've been manipulating the pillars manually.

In this example You will fall into Chou in the way I work with it.
Yet as there is Si, You and Chou on lines 1 and 3, that may qualify for the rules for combination The-Monk was using earlier. So does a line fall in tomb if we use that view to combination...

Assuming the Day Pillar is Geng Wu and Month Pillar is Geng Xu:
In this hexagram the entombing (falling into Chou) does not occur.  The San He combination (Three Combination) does occur.

By the way, if the entombing occurs, actually there is something special about being entombed into Chou.  That's for another topic...

Why doesn't the entombing happen? and what does the San He have to do with it?

Offline Sacrar

Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2019, 08:33:01 PM »
By the way @Gmuli  on the pop-up label wrote that some people believe that the Tomb can be opened from an "Earth Penalty". What does that mean?

Online Gmuli

Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 09:49:20 PM »
Well... For Xu would be Wei or Chou, but I don't use that for Liu Yao. I haven't seen anyone using it for Liu Yao, just for bazi. They aren't exactly the same, entomb in Liu Yao doesn't seem that important either, its there kinda, but its not that big of a lose if you miss it in my humble view. : )

Online JLim

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Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2019, 01:36:17 PM »
Entombing is Liu Yao is also important, although the way it works is different from that in Bazi.

Here is a case example where you don't want to miss entombing in Liu Yao.  Hai (first wife) is entombed in Chen, but Zi (second wife) is not entombed in Chen.  Big difference in interpretation:
Hi Tientai, this is a difficult case. Yong Shen is Offspring line Shen Metal. But since the question is about his wife, we we must also look at the Wife line.

How many wives does he have? I see there are two, Second line Hai and Fifth line Zi. He may not be able to get a child from the first wife, due to Month Break, and this line is entombed in Chen.

He has better chance from the second wife, which is strong by Day, because she is Zi and Day is You. Zi changes into Shen, the Offspring line, and is produced by Shen. But the child will not come so soon, not the same year.  Xu changes to Wu, and Wu clashes Zi.

I asked about how many wives because this case is in ancient China, so a man can have more than one. If this hexagram is asked in another country today, perhaps having many wives is not allowed.
Please click on the header of the quoted text if you want to read the whole case.

Online JLim

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Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 01:39:01 PM »
Why doesn't the entombing happen? and what does the San He have to do with it?
Because
1) there are Si, You and Chou. 
2) and the three Branches in this case successfully form a San He (Three Combination)

Online Tientai

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Re: About the "Tomb"
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 05:30:16 PM »
Again "tombs" are useful as "Warehouses " also (not so bad luck) .. in Wild Crane Liu Yao  ..!!!
There are cases with bad portents when Tombs are double in Month and Day branches .. on hexagram lines .
(even bad if triple with the year branch) .
...
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:34:17 PM by Tientai »

 

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