Hour

[Gmuli]

Interesting! By root you mean, exact same stem as dm in hour hidden (sub) stem? I guess that would make that person either rather gifted in the spiritual/paranormal or simply a lunatic . Probably not something you could directly see, unless you now that person very well.

Yea. But difficult to miss it if you do know them...

[Sacrar]

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[Gmuli]

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[Phoenix]

Jlim is adjusting the hour.
Puppylove wasn't adjusting the hour.
Fireoperator wasn't adjusting the hour.
Han was very sure we have to adjust, now seems equally sure we shouldn't. Adding that the hour is based on the Moon now, I'm not commenting more on that, as I don't think its worth commenting on.
I'm personally adjusting the hour as my chart doesn't make much sense to me without adjusted hour.

imo, Puppylove and FireOperator read the given chart by assuming it's correct already (or sometimes other members had verified it before).  They never ask whether the reading fit with the querent or not. And the querents doesn't say it too. Most often, they read about future that cannot be confirmed yet.

I don't mean to doubt their accuracy in reading because what they said is fit very much with the chart. they all are very logic, using consistent technique and interpretation. in short, their analysis is (i can believe) exactly what the chart shows.

i myself agree that in some cases, time adjusting is needed if birth hour given makes the chart doesn't match with querent's real life. sometimes, i wonder what time it is - the birth hour written in birth certificate, is it the time when baby come out of mother's body, or the first time they cry, etc. the worst is if it is the time when the nurse finally has time to write the report or she wrote as far as she remember    in nowadays, the time stated can be more accountable, but in old days i'm not sure they take it very importantly. also in old days, knowing time is relied in manual clock that can be slow down depend on battery, while nowadays we can see exact time on smartphone. few minutes could make big difference if it is borderline hour. and how if the birth hour is relied only on our elder's memory? it's really doubtful.

i think, readers in the past may do some birth hour verification too if things doesn't match. if they do it 100% manually, now we are helped by software.

[JLim]

i myself agree that in some cases, time adjusting is needed if birth hour given makes the chart doesn't match with querent's real life.

Sometimes, i wonder what time it is - the birth hour written in birth certificate, is it the time when baby come out of mother's body, or the first time they cry, etc. the worst is if it is the time when the nurse finally has time to write the report or she wrote as far as she remember   

It's the time when the baby takes its first independent breath, which is usually 10 seconds after delivery.  I know there is a member here who used to be a nurse, and hopefully she can share her past experience with birth time recording in hospitals

[Happy]

Hi,

I guess this is me?

Recording of the time was really secondary in our country.  We usually took the baby from the doctor, weighed the baby, listened to the heart, suctioned and applied antibiotic cream to the eyes then we would look at the time.  Sometimes we recorded the time first as the baby came out of the womb. 

We always rounded the time off.  Example: 10:01 or 10:02 it would be 10:00.  If 10:03 or 10:04 it would be 10:05.  This sometimes makes a big difference.

Also, we have to take into consideration if the typist didn't make a mistake from the recording as that was never checked against the chart.  Sometimes instead of typing 2 then they would hit the wrong button and type 3.  If the person went looking for her records years later then they would use the birth time of 3:00 instead it was actually 2:00. I have seen this happen.

I hope this helps........

[JLim]

Yes, Happy, I meant you  .   Thank you for sharing your experience. 

This shows that we must handle the Hour Pillar delicately.  Currently I am analyzing a chart where after solar time adjustment the Hour Pillar would be H+1, which is 4 minutes after H. 

However, after chart verification against life facts, I still use H anyway for the Bazi chart.

But H is without adjustment (wall clock time), does it mean that I don't believe in solar time adjustment? No, I do believe in solar, but the life facts say something else. This may be due to late recording by the nurse, after all 4 minutes is quite little.

[Phoenix]

thank you for sharing, Happy ❤️

that "typo by typist" really makes me want to cry 😭   they dunno such 'small' mistake can ruin or give false big hope to the babies when they read their bazi later years.

btw, i found this article :

https://www.andrieyk.me/2015/09/23/penyakit-dan-penyembuhan-tertera-pada-destiny/

he is a ziping bazi practicioner. he found the given chart didn't match with reality. so, he had initiative to change Chen hour into Si. it turned out Si hour is fit very much with chart owner. later it's confirmed that the baby was born at 9:06. chen hour comes out from solar time adjustment. it  might be hospital's clock accidentally going slow down or something that time so when the birthtime is adjusted, it becomes H-1.

somehow it shows me, mangpai or other method, they do not against time adjustment.

[Jiyou]

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[Happy]

Hi,

In my country, a resident with a doctor or two doctors are usually present for a c/section.  There are two nurses, one is responsible for the baby and the other is responsible for handing the doctors instruments.

We are discussing when the baby takes its first breath, what if a baby is born not breathing and placed on life support or oxygen, what time do we use?

[Milla]

Cutting the umbilical cord in a child, this is one of the most important points, can also be taken into account.

[Jiyou]

Hi,

In my country, a resident with a doctor or two doctors are usually present for a c/section.  There are two nurses, one is responsible for the baby and the other is responsible for handing the doctors instruments.

We are discussing when the baby takes its first breath, what if a baby is born not breathing and placed on life support or oxygen, what time do we use?

Not an expert in this matter, but my thoughts is that regardless whether the first breath time or the cutting the umbilical cord time is the correct one, it is unlikely that the doctor / nurse will record the time based on either of it. Most likely time is recorded after the whole delivery process is completed.

For example in the case if baby born not breathing, and let's say generally it'll take say 10 minutes to resuscitate the baby, then if so happen the RST based on the birth cert time is within 10 minutes of changing hour pillar, then best to do a birth time rectification based on actual life events.

[JLim]

Hi Jiyou, good points!

We are discussing when the baby takes its first breath, what if a baby is born not breathing and placed on life support or oxygen, what time do we use?

Hi Happy!  Good point. I still don't have a conclusive answer and would use the time recorded by the hospital.  Next, I would verify if the life facts match the birth date and time. 

Premature babies are always difficult cases...