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Library => Liu Yao => Liu Yao Case Studies => Topic started by: Gmuli on June 08, 2020, 03:11:06 PM
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Interesting example from AK Gurus blog. Uses some rules I'm wondering about lately.
So here is the link:
https://www.akguru.my/post/iching47-4214?postId=5ed7b331bcb66d0017958de4
Here was the hexagram:
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1kMc1pv/carrier-ak-guru-example.png)
The interesting part is that he is using hidden moving lines 2 times, once for Zi and once for Yin and it seems it did worked out in practice in the specified month.
But its rules that I still have some doubt on, there are cases it seems combination with day branch does lead to movement, yet there are some where it doesn't.
So I'm wondering... Since the way he is reading it, it will take months to actually see that something was going on, could they be moving but with more rules attach to it(like it shows at the month/day/hour that clashes the line to set it free as some rare sources seem to think)?
Anyway, interesting example, lets review it.
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I copy paste ak guru analysis...
1. Original hexagram as clash-hexagram
➡️ The career will be having an undulated changing.
2. Asset-Yin holding bird is hidden moving, line 5 in empty condition. But clash-hexagram again make all becoming moving-line, line 5 void-filled.
➡️ This year Shen-month, there will be an unexpected financial problem. It is caused by an argument or dispute. Will be affecting income and career.
3. Line one Zi-water is hidden moving.
➡️ After argument event on Shen month, this already leads to your resignation. The maximum you can stand after this argument event will be about 4 months time. Meaning that Zi-month will be definately the last month you can stand with your company situation. Then resignation will be served.
4. Line 5 sibling is fake-void.
➡️ Shen month is not 100% will be going to resign. There is still an uncertainty factor.
Feedback and suggestion:
Late Wei-month, (about to getting Shen-month) Mr A is having a very unhappy meeting with his employer. Shen-month, his boss asked him when he wanted to leave this company (with the way in making a joke). He leaves immediate on that day.
...
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Aha, so lines are moving not because of combinations or clash from month but because its clash type hexagram.
This is interesting. May work.
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Dear gmuli hi .
I don't think all lines are moving on this clash type hexagram ..
The possibility of " movement " in an nonmoving hexagram comes only from the clash by the day branch ..(secret moving line )
Another influence that can make a tedency of movement of an unmoving line is if this line is in Wang or Xiang stage by the Month and day ..!!
But this is for an anmoving hexagram only ..!!!
Just put my thoughts ....
..
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I used to agree, but I searched for examples and found one just a few days ago.
I thought was suppose to be good(its about eating pizza) yet it turned out to bring problems.
https://www.bright-hall.net/wwg/2/51,0,0,0,0,0,0,3,3,2020-05-31,03:52/
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4wszh1v/food-problems-31-may-2020.png)
My idea was that my line is strong, it clashes the food line, yet with it being so strong it won't matter much. What can show problem would expect to be Officer or wood lines and since both are not moving and officer is in void it should be fine.
Yet if we look at Officer as moving and supported by the day, that is very different picture and can explain stuff.
And I did had problems afterwards again with large intestine as usual and that line should have been in void.
Not saying its a 100% thing, but its definitly enough to reconsider the rule(at least it is for me).
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Here are some comments on the analysis by the other website (as copied-pasted by Tientai):
2. Asset-Yin holding bird is hidden moving, line 5 in empty condition. But clash-hexagram again make all becoming moving-line, line 5 void-filled.
➡️ This year Shen-month, there will be an unexpected financial problem. It is caused by an argument or dispute. Will be affecting income and career.
I don't agree with the hidden moving of Asset-Yin. Yin is Wood, and strong by Day, because Hai Water produces Yin Wood. If Yin was moving, then it would be stronger. In that case, loss of income would not be that drastic (losing a job and the salaries). What happens is Siblings-Shen "appears" in Shen month, giving it strength to clash the Yin.
3. Line one Zi-water is hidden moving.
I don't agree with the hidden moving of this one, either.
Gmuli has a point, we cannot test Zi month, because Zi is far away. Zi is December, while Shen is August, and the employee already quit in Shen.
Feedback and suggestion:
Late Wei-month, (about to getting Shen-month) Mr A is having a very unhappy meeting with his employer.
Yes, I agree. Although "very unhappy" is a bit understated. If we include the Six Animals: Shen+Tiger clashing Yin+Bird = they had a very heated argument.
I don't think all lines are moving on this clash type hexagram ..
The possibility of " movement " in an nonmoving hexagram comes only from the clash by the day branch ..(secret moving line )
Agreed, Tientai!
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I thought was suppose to be good(its about eating pizza) yet it turned out to bring problems.
https://www.bright-hall.net/wwg/2/51,0,0,0,0,0,0,3,3,2020-05-31,03:52/
(https://i.postimg.cc/W4wszh1v/food-problems-31-may-2020.png)
Hi Gmuli, in this hexagram, Self and Others line are both equally strong by Month and Day. But the Others (Object) line has hidden movement, as suggested correctly by Tientai below:
The possibility of " movement " in an nonmoving hexagram comes only from the clash by the day branch ..(secret moving line )
Therefore the Others line moves and is somewhat stronger than Self. Others is the object or food that you eat (Wealth line = food). It's stronger so it's difficult for Self to digest. Others line comes with Gou Chen, and Gou Chen in the Six Animal images can represent the digestive system. You can see it as the food "moving" in your digestion. In Liu Yao, certain things are better when it's non-moving, for example the Others Wealth line in this case.
Officer line (Illness) does not move, so I don't see that it actually brought an illness. Just a discomfort that's shown by "quiet" Self clashing a moving Others line.
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I thought was suppose to be good(its about eating pizza) yet it turned out to bring problems.
Hi Gmuli, in this hexagram, Self and Others line are both equally strong by Month and Day. But the Others (Object) line has hidden movement, as suggested correctly by Tientai below:
The possibility of " movement " in an nonmoving hexagram comes only from the clash by the day branch ..(secret moving line )
Therefore the Others line moves and is somewhat stronger than Self. Others is the object or food that you eat (Wealth line = food). It's stronger so it's difficult for Self to digest. Others line comes with Gou Chen, and Gou Chen in the Six Animal images can represent the digestive system. You can see it as the food "moving" in your digestion. In Liu Yao, certain things are better when it's non-moving, for example the Others Wealth line in this case.
Officer line (Illness) does not move, so I don't see that it actually brought an illness. Just a discomfort that's shown by "quiet" Self clashing a moving Others line.
Ahaaa, I see it makes sense, thank you!
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Therefore the Others line moves and is somewhat stronger than Self. Others is the object or food that you eat (Wealth line = food). It's stronger so it's difficult for Self to digest. Others line comes with Gou Chen, and Gou Chen in the Six Animal images can represent the digestive system. You can see it as the food "moving" in your digestion. In Liu Yao, certain things are better when it's non-moving, for example the Others Wealth line in this case.
Officer line (Illness) does not move, so I don't see that it actually brought an illness. Just a discomfort that's shown by "quiet" Self clashing a moving Others line.
I do have to agree that you are becoming really good with the system, its awesome to see.
Happy to be here. : )
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I like line 6 as psychosomatic and I'm not sure the Officer was moving, maybe Jlim is right and was just food problems(food line too strong and clashing) although I haven't fully given up on the idea of clash leading to all lines somewhat moving.
But the food line being too strong does make a lot of sense and it fit how it felt.
Earth as worry - very much agree with that, earth = yi意 as spirit of the spleen = a lot of stuff including worry, I use that a lot with the other 神.
Also digestion, though connection of worry and digestion should be easy to do, similar to breathing and fear(or "unable to take it all in") with the po魄 etc.
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Psychosomatic: sixth line alone is not enough, in my opinion. Look at this: Yong Shen for psychological disorder (http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=915.msg6469#msg6469), the Parent line must be connected. In this hexagram, there is no connection between Parent line Zi, Officer and the Sixth line.
Even if the Sixth line alone was enough, a mind/emotion problem would not lead to the indigestion (psychosomasis), because this line is also very strong by Month and Day. It was just the food was a tad stronger since its line "moved" (hidden moving).
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Can Gmuli confirm that the issue with the pizza was self-resolving, and that he did not take any remedy at all?
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Jlim:
I didn't take any remedy at that specific day.Back thenI waited until next time I take by schedule(that was 2 days after, (I'm drinking homeopathic remedy that I took 2 times a week back then).
ren:
Well, the homeopathic remedy thing that I drink right now is phosphorus- that is very related to fire element in my humble opinion(can read description in the net).
So the Wu fire line may show the remedy(Child), strong in the month and day, potentially attacking officer, also I'm full of it, that is long to explain but it also fits, so seem to fit to the Wu line, although how important it is for the reading is up to you to decide. It does potentially support my line as well.(as I drank just the day before).
And the Shen line, as Yang Metal can show problem with large intestine and that does seem to be the problem that I usually ask mostly about.
I do have to mention that other members would suggest to not worry about lines you aren't reading at the time, but if we want to place it all, I would go with that(Shen - the large intestine stuff and the Wu as the remedy, both may not be fully connected to that specific day, though).
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Jlim:
I didn't take any remedy at that specific day. Back then I waited until next time I take by schedule (that was 2 days after, (I'm drinking homeopathic remedy that I took 2 times a week back then).
As I thought, you did not need a remedy to address the issue with this pizza. This feedback shows that 午 Wu Offspring line did not turn into a moving line.
If it did, then you would not have waited until the next routine schedule.
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Jlim:
I didn't take any remedy at that specific day. Back then I waited until next time I take by schedule (that was 2 days after, (I'm drinking homeopathic remedy that I took 2 times a week back then).
As I thought, you did not need a remedy to address the issue with this pizza. This feedback shows that 午 Wu Offspring line did not turn into a moving line.
If it did, then you would not have waited until the next routine schedule.
True.
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ren, my take on the non-moving Wu Offspring line (Reply #16) is an explanation of one of the lines between Subject and Object.
How to interpret the other line, which is Shen Officer line? This line combines with Si Offspring, which is a Month Branch. This combination explains the self-resolve of the indigestion. Si Offspring is the routine intake of phosphorus, because it's a Month Branch. And Si is also Fire element.
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Dear @Gmuli hi ..
As I observed on Hexagram about pizza eating .. I would add that you try to cohabitate with unorthodox way fire and water ..,!!
You prefer to take tasty foods that are contrary the way your organism is absorbing it... even if you believe fire is good for digestion ..!
I don't want to say the hard word " Victim of taste " but indulgence is contrary to health immunity .. (Brother yin kin 2nd line ).. is curently in a mess !!
Again Xu earth (on 6th self line and on day branch ) works as a tomb of fire.
Secret moving Chen 4th Other line reject (repulse) Xu self line on tortoise ..and entomb Parent 1st line longivity star ...
You need somehow water for fluidity .. and of course heat for digestion .. !! But not so much fire (cancer, diabetes ..etc) .. teach yourself moderation ...
I think you are a wavy wood Dragon personality (playing with imunity !! ) .. as depicting Chen trigrams or Hexagram. . :D
Best regards
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I'm asking before every food I eat. I don't think it can get more careful or moderate then that. : )
If you are reading a question about specific food in a series of many questions asked that week about food, and in that specific example there is a problem it would make sense food will look very important for the health.
Yet there are other series of other questions that are much more important to what happened some years ago and still reverberates today, but that is long story and I don't feel I should go into now.
I did posted some more personal stuff then I usually like to, I do like how the topics develop, though.
But I'm happy with my current path. As far as food is concerned I do make my own dough that I don't remember having any problems in for years now, but there is a reason it isn't easy to buy already made food made with, as it takes a lot of time and effort to make, then if I buy stuff from the street its very likely to have bad effect... Then I ask and in the very few cases when I misread the outcome we may talk about it here...
Anyway, I don't need health advices, I posted this so we can look at examples and rules, and I do realize may have been a bad idea also that its challenging to read a health related exmaple and not offer an advice, yet my point is - no worries, I do what I think is best and it needs a lot more info then a question about food in series of questions about food just at that day, to be able to see even small part of what is going on, where it originated or what is the most important factor in it(and it isn't food).
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I don't want to go into explanation what I eat, drink, or why I chooce specific way of healing etc.
Lets close the topic with this and I may avoid posting health examples in the future, as I do agree its challenging to read them withot offering advice and while in my case, the info needed to actually get some idea what is going on would be a lot more then what is provided and would include other systems as well. And since I don't think its good idea to go more into it, currently, lets wrap up the health examples from me, and move on to different topics. : )
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I don't intended to make you so angry dear gmuli .. and sorry for this ...
Everything I said is based on rules that are known to you .. inside this Hexagram. .
I don't teach you .. I used the sentence "teach yourself moderation " .. take it as a wonderful saying !!
I take back rough words as: mess, victim of taste, indulgence, wavy personality... sorry I don't really meant it ..
I don't blame you by the word "indulgence" .. many people including me are in favour of many unhealthy desires .. I quit 7 years ago smoking habit .. it was against my imunity .. you see now ..!?
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I'm not angry, but I ask a lot and with that any extra info then the effect of that specific food deminishes with each question. Usually the Officer will be different, the Sibling line may have problem with the food or not, the positions of important lines may vary, fire may have a problem or not(in month of fire a lot more logical to have as any weak line will be weak in part in relation to it) and overall everything will be different every time.
So any rule we notice here if we want to use it for the general health condition it have to apply to every single food I asked for that day, week and month and that just isn't the case.
I'm not angry, I appreciate the input, I'm just saying it can't help much in this specific case, as there is a leveling of the info in the hexagram when asked a lot and small details start to look bigger big details disapear after first 1-2 questions, so if you try to get them from a hexagram, as it would usually work if someone is asking for food, it just won't help. Because the next question for the next food often is entirely different, as images and everything else will have to be less related to general health condition even more so long term one, and they have to point to that specific food.
Its all good, but in experience if we ask about a member of a specific group in a specific country and how would they be if they do specific activity, then continue to ask questions for every single member and the same activity the more quesitons we gather the less info there will be about the group as a whole and about other related stuff, as all general stuff has been covered in the previous questions.
In that sense we get to the position where I ask before every food I eat for years now and it works well, and I have to explain that I'm being careful with food, something that should be obvious by the whole premise. : )
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I suggest we move on from my poor large intestine(that is actually much better then it was just few years ago and much, much better then it was when I was a baby) to other subjects and topis!
As this one "hits too close to home" as people say. : )
I can post some other interesting example, not related to my health if nothing else comes up, but lately there have been a lot of stuff going on, so not sure when can find it out(as I recorded them on paper few years ago).
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Hi JLim,
Thank you for your responses.
Hey Gmuli,
I did have a few questions - but later...
Thank you for sharing your personal case study and assisting my CM growth.
All the best to your "Poor Old Intestines" - Peaceful passage...
ren
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About the earlier Qian hexagram, and the movement of the quiet lines; as Tientai said, the date clashing with a quiet line makes that line move. So the zi being clashed by wu day makes it move.
Alex Chiu says "What I meant was the current month cannot turn a quiet line into a moving line. Only a FUTURE MONTH can turn a quiet line into a moving line."
Casting was done on a wei month. The following month is shen month, and it clashes with yin. Alex Chiu says "The red color represents talking, fighting, fire, argument, disagreement, etc.". The G star stands for money. So the argument is also about money. G could also represent girl (woman). But since this is a career question, it is probably about money; unless two office mates are fighting over a woman in the office.