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Library => Liu Yao => Topic started by: Gmuli on March 05, 2019, 06:24:55 PM
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Lets try to look at some Liu Yao resources in English. While the system is slowly making its way to the west, its still in very, very early steps, so resources are few. However, even so, some of them are really good.
1. Jack Chiu "Secrets of Wen Wang Gua" book.
http://www.acmc.com.hk/Book011.aspx (http://www.acmc.com.hk/Book011.aspx)
For me this is probably the best book I have seen on the topic. It could be challenging for people not familiar with the Five Arts, however it has very detailed rules that for me seem to work very well(with few exceptions, but that is still much, much more then most of the other info).
2.The Clear-Cut I Ching or Wen Wang Gua for Beginners: Volume One - Master S.R.Chang
https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Cut-Ching-Wen-Wang-Beginners-ebook/dp/B008RH0LM0/ (https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Cut-Ching-Wen-Wang-Beginners-ebook/dp/B008RH0LM0/)
I liked the history part here, as I was wondering more about Fangs story and why it ended like that. Here there is more then enough info to get an idea about why.
3.Raymond Lo's I Ching Books.
http://www.raymond-lo.com/14524/books
While I haven't fully read any of them I started one in Russian. My Russian is really, really bad(and that is probably understatement), so it would be unfair to comment on it in depth. However, from what I have seen the rules seem similar to what I'm familiar with.
Although some nicer examples would have been appreciated, dying miners and murders all around there make it somewhat too grim.
4.I Ching - Wisdom Revealed (Book of Changes) by Vincent Koh
https://www.amazon.com/Ching-Revealed-Changes-Academic-interpretation/dp/9812295968/ (https://www.amazon.com/Ching-Revealed-Changes-Academic-interpretation/dp/9812295968/)
I like Kohs approach in his Feng Shui book and in his BaZi book he had some tables that I haven't seen in other books, like Month Commander for example. This I Ching book I haven't read, have seen a few times people to mention about it that its very good for people that are just starting with the system.
Moving on from books, there are a few correspondence courses out there.
Another very interesting source is Alex Chiu's Super I Ching site.
http://superiching.com/ (http://superiching.com/)
A problem there is that he is using his own naming ways for the branches/stems, so at start may seem like its a whole another thing. It isn't really, just the names are different.
However, when it comes to rules, I have problems with some rules there, especially around Void.
Joseph Yus WWG Course.
I did like some of the info there, good to mention that he is basing the relations(Officer/Sibling etc.) of the second Hexagram to the element/house of the second Hexagram.
So far all mentioned before are basing it on first one, potentially giving very different lines to read.
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Thank you all for the resources. :) I have set this topic sticky.
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Dear @ren ..
Very interesting your all informations about Wen Wang Gua (or Liu Yao Yi Gua) in western world ..
Dear @Gmuli .. hi
Thank you too.. for your mention on all these authors on Wenwanggua .... !!
.. I want to say all have made typo mistakes inside their books or courses .. not only Alex Chiu..
I have read all of them but still Alex's is much meaningful by far ...
Anyway this is my personal view and opinion ..!!
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Good afternoon,
Delighted to participate with you.
I provide a resource in Spanish, related to the study of Wen Wang Gua. In it he develops the reading Nalta and the consultations. This book is written by Maite Foulquié; Shú-Yuán Chén (2015) I Ching Jing Fáng I. The March Hare.
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@tretfcan hi .. good welcome to our forum ...
Please can you provide more informations on this book ..?
any example and explanation on a case ..?
As I have seen it uses Lunar calendar ... is it true ?
best regards
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@tretfcan hi .. good welcome to our forum ...
Please can you provide more informations on this book ..?
any example and explanation on a case ..?
As I have seen it uses Lunar calendar ... is it true ?
best regards
Hi Tientai,
I have the book. Right, she advises using Chinese lunar calendar and adjusting to Chinese time. Personally I prefer true solar time on the recommendation of those experts who know the matter, but I do not know precision differences between one system and another.
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We must aware that Wenwanggua is principal naming of an ancient divination art ...
Next of it there are many sects that run parallel to this art ...
Many of them are under the umbrella of the name Liu Yao Yi Gua .. (Six lines on Yi Hexagrams ).
They are slightly differ from Ancient form .. still are useful and accurate from their representative master's ...!!
...
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Sorry for being late to answer.
The book is developed in parts, in my understanding well organized; the parts are divided into an initial introduction to the elements of the luni-solar calendar, basic principles regarding elements, some Chinese astrology, trigrams and hexagrams. A section goes fully into the intrinsic concepts related to Liu Yao and later to the exogenous parameters.
As practical spinning elements, it develops the natal reading through the date and WWG and ends with the consultation section with WWG.
As for the schedule, adapt the schedule to the time of the Beijing time, to obtain the stem and branches of the day in the consultation, for the natal chart take the corresponding number referring to the Lunar calendar.
I hope to provide you with a scarce Spanish-speaking resource.
A cordial greeting.
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the parts are divided into an initial introduction to the elements of the luni-solar calendar, basic principles regarding elements, some Chinese astrology, trigrams and hexagrams. A section goes fully into the intrinsic concepts related to Liu Yao and later to the exogenous parameters.
As practical spinning elements, it develops the natal reading through the date and WWG and ends with the consultation section with WWG.
Thank you for your kind sharing with us dear @tretfcan ...
BTW what you mean .. exogenous parameters ?
Please can you demonstrate a case example (with natal hexagram ) ?
Best regards
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The exogenous parameters refer to non-fixed elements, which change such as the date of the day, celestial animals, empty branches.
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The exogenous parameters refer to non-fixed elements, which change such as the date of the day, celestial animals, empty branches.
Natal Hexagrams are calculating just as energy master website is pointing out ?
http://www.energy-master.com/
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In it, the author Shu Yuan Chen, takes the number of the lunar month and day to derive a Hexagráma. Through this it composes J and O, assembles the branches and relatives ... as proper parameters of the hexagram.
Hi, @tretfcan...
Let's make an example ...'
Current Year is 4718 Geng Zi
Today is 4th lunar month ( Xin Si ). .
And 10th lunar day ( Yi Si )..
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What is the natal Hexagram ? ..
Thanks anyway ..
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Good morning, it looks like a test.
Applying the system, writing down the date that you have provided, results in the birth hexagram number 17. This data comes through the month and day of birth.
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Good morning, it looks like a test.
Applying the system, writing down the date that you have provided, results in the birth hexagram number 17. This data comes through the month and day of birth.
Hi, @tretfcan..
Interesting natal Hexagram indeed but with a General overview of someone's life..!!
I wonder if this Hexagram has something to do with textual Yijing on reading one's life...!!
Moving line I Guess calculate with hour branches.. by adjustment to Beijing local time ...
The best part i think is divination by coins and creating an Hexagram that is directed to solve current mischances ...
Question is if hand made Hexagram (by coins) is combined or conjoined somehow with natal one .. and how ..
BTW .. I don't test you ..!!
Best regards
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Yes, only one line is considered as active, through the branch time of birth, once the conversion to Beijing.
If you use the coin toss next to the birth chart, it makes no reference. Both natal and print runs are considered separately.
As for whether the coin toss or the birth chart is better, I don't have the experience to ratify one or the other. I am just an apprentice, who began to be curious as a result of the book that initially deals with the system of Flor de Ciruelo and Wen Wang Gua, in Spanish by Ariel Miranda Viera. Fascinating the logic of thought that hints.
Subsequently, I devoted myself to looking for more sources to contrast what was shown by Ariel Miranda Viera, obtaining the publication of Spanish-speaking Shu Yuan Chen and Su Yu Chang, and English-speaking Jack Chiu, among others.
My interest is now, to focus and consolidate knowledge and contact people with the same interest.
Greetings, and thanks for reading.
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Good luck to your way and on your researches @tretfcan ..
I hope with such a kindness and honesty will find the " treasures " You looking for ..!!
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Hi Tretfcan,
Thank you for your posts.
Ariel Miranda Viera has a book on Plum Blossom? If you have the book can you post the table of contents and give a review?
Also, what do you think of Viera's Wen Wang Gua book?
Thanks,
ren
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The publication by Arial Miranda Viera, is divided into two parts. The first part mentions I'Ching in general, dedicating approximately 15 pages on the Plum Blossom technique and the second part dedicates it to Wen Wang Gua.
Regarding his interest in Plum Blossom, the content talks about Shao Yung, procedural technique and cameo with the derivation of hexagrams through the BAZi.
As for WWG, it is great for a beginner to get an idea of how the hexagram is set up, and of the possibilities that its logic can provide. But if you are looking for depth such as rules and reading breaks it falls short. It also has very few practical cases. But in general, for those who have no idea that this technique exists, I recommend it.
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That is quite possibly the first item I have seen in a very long while that I would recommend.
My one minor concern, is that they appear to be needlessly adding on the Matter Element and appear to waffle around a bit regarding the Five Element cycles, etc, but will examine the rest of the videos to see if this is marketing or whether there is a good logic behind it. Considering their explanations within that one video so far, I would imagine there is a good reason for assigning another identifier, but will observe and give my more complete review of it later.
Will view the rest when I have time, but this appears to be promising for those starting off.
A good find @Gmuli
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It seems Jlim was correct the "De I Tjing stap voor stap" book was not about WWG. :-[
There is WWG book from Harmen Mesker coming in English in the future, though, I thought was translation of this, but it seems may be entirely new.
We are also using Images from Harmen in the calculator now(for Trigrams, Relations and Animals).
Can a moderator delete the previous posts about this, btw?
I get the previous info can be misleading for people.
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Hi Gmuli, can you make a new topic for your previous post? This topic is not for analyzing, but for discussion of resources. Please also repost the hexagram.
Sure, here we go:
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1012.0 (http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1012.0)
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Gmuli's original post mentioned Alex Chiu's rules. Below is the link to a post by a member of Clarity, named Yvonne (user name - "forty two"). The post summarizes the rules in both Jack Chiu's book, and Alex Chiu's website. (I do not think they are related).
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/archive/index.php/t-16452.html
The first part of the page is Yvonne's initial understanding. A few posts later, she explains in greater detail.
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I'm retracing my steps back.
This will be long post, if we want to keep the topic posts shorter, feel free to move most of it to another topic, only living the last few sentences. I think I should explain some details on what happened back then, however.
People that follow the forum for a while, may be aware that there were more posts in the topic and they were related to Ak Guru material.
I asked for them to be deleted some time ago, that was a misunderstanding that we cleared out very soon after. At that point, however, before I mention more I wanted to be clear what I can say for the material itself.
The Monk back then said that was possibly the only source in English that is recommended to learn from... I wanted to figure out why before I comment more on it or post about that again.
If we go back, I have studied a lot of divination systems, through the years. Probably more then most members here know exist. And I knew how a working divination system feels. There is coherence in it, there is a communication going on with whatever we want to call it Divine, Heaven, The Process,Heart etc.
There is a feeling of wholeness when we use it, there is a info being exchanges and that is usually fully available.
With WWG it was different for me for a while. While the accuracy was nice, we can see some readings in the other forums, some of them we got accuracy that is rare to see from other systems. But something was missing. The whole system instead of feeling like me and the Divine have a conversation in friendly environment, it felt like we had a conversation during a storm.
Some words and some sentences made it through the wind and the rain around, that few words were right on place, they were accurate, but most of it was lost in the storm.
So I knew something was missing and this was going for more then a few years now.
And I kinda knew it was likely very connected to the coins. That would need some explanation as well. We use the coins, we decide heads or tails... Yet I never understood why it ends there. We decide heads or tails and the system honors our decision. We also decide the Focus, but why can't we decide more?We would need that for it to be full communication. Right now it seems we know a few words to ask the system with and we know very well the reply, yet we don't really know fully what we are asking...
i found my answer, finally after so many years I'm happy how the system works. There is, of course, more to learn, but I feel the same I did with the other divination systems I learned in the past, there is communication with it, now. This is vital for using it in my view.
And that was thanks to Ak Guru materials.
So lets summarize it here.
Ak gurus materials, for me, are likely the only materials in English I can recommend as well. : )
https://www.akguru.my/
P.S. The posts that were deleted, basically was me linking a video from there and the calculator we made, The Monk saying that based on that video that may be the only source in English worth recommending and that was it.
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I don't know what is in the course, I'm referring to the free videos and the materials in the blog(there are a lot of case studies).
May look unusual at first, just give it a chance, a lot can be explained from the info in there.
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And here is good book from the same source.:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Ching-Has-Text-Divination-ebook/dp/B0919C422F
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Without going into details, will just say that I can recommend AK course to all interested in WWG. : )
We have seen a lot of WWG material through the years... There is much in there I think all will benefit from.
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Second book from AK and Celestial WWG School is available now here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/9671938736
It seems very good we can see preview in google books as well more info on that in the facebook group(or in google books).
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Second Ak book is very good, since using the techniques from there can help a lot with reading, I can recommend people to either read it, or if they can't afford it to at least read the preview pages in google books:
https://books.google.bg/books?id=A9NJEAAAQBAJ
(click Preview below the book cover to see first 30 pages or so).
This way even if you don't know the exact details will at least be familiar with what methods we use. I can recommend reading the whole book, though, its awesome.
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4.I Ching - Wisdom Revealed (Book of Changes) by Vincent Koh
This I Ching book I haven't read, have seen a few times people to mention about it that its very good for people that are just starting with the system.
I stumbled on Vincent Kohs book. Since it may not be easy to find now, seems good idea to post some review.
Similar to his other books again he has stuff that I haven't seen in other sources much. Some I liked. There is the idea of finding the leading line in a hexagram, blueprints for Feng Shui readings and all sorts of other stuff. Parts are more focused on Mei Hua, part use both together(with WWG)...
Overall I liked it. It isn't very big book, can't say it will change much from what I'm using, but I can think of an idea or two that I may add from there in the future.
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I bought the book a few years ago when I was in Singapore. It's a nice introduction to various methods using the Iching. Thumbs up, clearly written and easy to digest :) :) :)
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Nice list:
I would strongly disadvise against The Clear-Cut I Ching or Wen Wang Gua for Beginners: Volume One - Master S.R.Chang.
It contains almost no useable information about WWG, and seems to be a few pages just thrown into this book to show that he is aware of this system. It is one of the few books in my life, that I decided to trash after tea spilled on it.
Highly misleading.
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Thank you, Johan, for writing, and welcome to the forum!
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Some possible additions. : )
Very nice group in Reddit here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sixlinesdivination/
There are some more books as well, I mentioned them in there in the same topic. But in general one is:
The Authentic I Ching - Dr. Wang Yang and Jon Sandifer
He tried to use all 3 systems together. Some parts were very interesting, but in general wasn't really the best fit for me.
There are a lot more materials for Liu Yao and Health now. One example is this:
I Ching Acupuncture - The Balance Method by David Twicken
There are others, usually checking around Dr Tans material can lead to interesting results.
Some more youtube videos and websites around as well, but nothing different then what is known already for the most part.
There were few interesting articles in website, like why the branch assignments are what they are, going alittle beyond what we know(opposite direction for yin and yang branches on yang trigrams etc.) but can't find it now.
Some facebook I Ching group were mentioning WWG, apparently with the idea they plan to move toward more topics around it... Can't say I saw that actually happening, so irrelevant for here at this point.