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Library => Liu Yao => Topic started by: Tientai ✝️ on December 23, 2019, 08:12:09 PM
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疾病预测中六亲的应用
A- Liu Qin [Six relatives ] application to forecast diseases..
用神爻为病人
1. Yongshen = Patient [sick person ]
以应爻为医生、医院
2. Ying - (O)ther line = Doctor or Hospital
官鬼爻为疾病
3. Ghost/Official = Disease [sickness]
4. 父母爻为诊断
Parent = examination Diagnosis
兄弟爻代表花费,
5. Brothers line as money expenses for cure [.. or immunity -- competition against unfavourable influences ]
子孙爻为医药。
6. Offspring = Medicine [medical care ]
以财爻为饮食。
7. Wife - Wealth = feeding [food and drink, Diet]
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病因的判断
B- Determining the cause of disease.
1. 以鬼爻所伏之飞神定病因。
if a Ghost line hidden in Fushen then Feishen determine the cause of a disease
2.以鬼爻化出之爻。或者是化出鬼爻者判断。
if a Ghost line changes to a line, or a line changes to Ghost line.. this line determines [the cause of a disease]
.......
.......
Tientai
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While I very much agree with most of that, its probably interesting to mention that Officer line is made by the controling relation to the element of the Hexagram.
In that sense, if we consider Officer as "control images", then the line that is controlling the Self line will also have Officer Images on it but instead of doing that in relation to the situation it will do it in relation to the specific person.
Some years back we had members in the other forums that used it like that, the illness wasn't the initial Officer line, it was the line that controls the Self line. And it also seemed to work very well. : )
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While I very much agree with most of that, its probably interesting to mention that Officer line is made by the controling relation to the element of the Hexagram.
In that sense, if we consider Officer as "control images", then the line that is controlling the Self line will also have Officer Images on it but instead of doing that in relation to the situation it will do it in relation to the specific person.
Some years back we had members in the other forums that used it like that, the illness wasn't the initial Officer line, it was the line that controls the Self line. And it also seemed to work very well. : )
I have not understood very well what you are trying to say, could you support it with an example?
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Yes well said :
....Officer element wishes to control (attack) the Sibling line, we may see what organ / element / property - may effect / attack Sibling (body) - as well as the bodies ability to defend / counter attacks.
Sibling line is taken as the Body .. and points out the Palace Hexagram..
Ghost - Officer is taken as the Spirit (or Soul) of the same Hexagram ..
In an ancient text "Bu Shi Quan Shu " is written that without Ghost -Officer there isn't any Qi (Energy ) in other "Relatives " ..is formless yet useful inside an Hexagram.
Must be quiet and is favourable to be unmoving..(.. this can explain the life span of a person or Destiny -Ming )
if is insufficient or absent inside an Hexagram then have problems the other "Relatives" ( is just as not providing Qi to other parts of [body])...
Next to it is the Parent star and must be unmoving == treated as "Longivity star " also .....
Therefore Ghost -Officer must not taken so easily as fearful God ..
...
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I agee with ren, but that leads to the same effect, as the sibling line will always be same element as the Hexagram.
In that sense if we look at what is controling the Sibling line, that would already be the Officer/Ghost line.
I meant that the self line can also show the persons depending on the question. And the Self line can be anything. And there will be something attacking/controlling it.
In the previous example:
(https://i.postimg.cc/QNvyTWCz/tcm-and-liu-yao-topic-12-2019.png)
The Self line is Metal. That is combining with the Si line, but the Si line is also controlling it and its also somewhat moving in the way The Monk read it.
So here the idea is that from Si controlling the Self line we again get Image of Officer/Control relation, so that Si line can also show illness, even though its resource.
It makes different way of reading it, as once we have Officer from what attacks the hexagram element, that is what attacks Sibling as well(as Sibling will always be Hexagram element). But then we also have similar images in the line that still controls the Self Line.
In this example, Self line is child. Resource is controlling it(as resource does). So from the point of view of the Self line, Fire is the Officer.
Meaning if we make the relation based on different points of view, we get different line as officer. And in this case, Self lines Officer is fire and that is resource.
In this sense there are more then a few things we can look for illness. Officer line - sure. Line that turns to Officer - sure. White Tiger in some situations I guess. But then we also have the line that is controlling the Self line or the other persons line.
Also that can happen if we ask for someone else. Lets say we ask for a parent. Parent line may represent them, but then the line that will attack them is the Wealth line. In that case Child won't be the cure depending on what Officer line we watch, as the Child line will be producing the illness line. Suggesting the medicine that the person is using may be making everything worse.
Same way as in bazi if we want to see another spouse or boyfriend for female in bazi, but we need to do it in a males chart(lets say his girlfriend) we can look at her element from her point of view. So for Wealth, Officer line will be SIbling(as Sibling controls Wealth). Again Officer relation/images, but shown indirectly. I think its called "shifting palaces" there or whatever, but the general idea that we can make the relation based on the line that we find interesting to follow.
We have more then a few examples with that, as some members in the other forums used only that. The illness was always the line that attacks the Self line(or the patients line).
In my view, I agree with Tientai and Ren that other stuff is what we should first look for illness(the initial Officer line, as that will not only control the Sibling line, but also the Hexagram element as a whole), but I do think the line that is Officer in relation to the Self line also can play a role and in other situations other lines as well.
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Took some time to find it, I meant this(quote from The Monk post):
There also happens to be a line within the reading that is undergoing Hidden Movement (暗动); the Annoying God/Spirit of Annoyance (忌神) that is the Parent Line, represented by the Snake atop the Curved Array (勾陈), which subsequently attempts to Combine (合) with the Self Line. The Annoying God may also be viewed from the view of the person themselves (the person asking the question to this Reading about illness) to be an illness in of itself.
Can't find the other topics in the old forums, but as I mention other members seem to be exclusively using this(so ignoring the Officer line at all)
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How will my state progress, well, or will there be further complications?
Processing on this basis
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?threads/serious-health-issue.22677/
5.2.4 > 49
From a text-based, following The Medical I Ching , this is gonna be a tough one. There is a chance to relapse (prognosis for hex 5), and recovering "will be dramatic and transformative" (prognosis for hex 49).
Quote:Chronic illnesses with poor prognozis, external cold with internal heat , bladder trouble and sudden and complete change in symptomatology ,aggressive and changeable illnesses…
From a Wen Wang Gua perspective, in 5zhi49 we can find both positive and negative signs:
When the question is about helath issues, there are 3 key factors: the host line, representing You (in 5zhi49, this line is Shen-metal);
the Official/Ghost, representing the illness and the fear it causes (in 5zhi49, the Official is Yin-wood); and the Parent, representing the doctor and the treatment (in 5zhi49, the Parent is Si-Fire)
In 5zhi49 both the host line and the Official are active lines, meaning an agressive illness and and active fight for recovering. Since metal controls wood, this is a good sign of you defeating the illness
In 5zhi49 the Parent is voided: meaning the treatment is temporarily uneffective. In 5zhi49, asked on May 23, 2016, Si would came out of hide eventually. So, any treatment would take a lot of time to work. It also can be the case that you eventually would need to change of doctor/treatment before it works. Since fire controls metal, the treatment would probe to be highly debilitating (I guess it referes to the chemoteraphy option).
When the Official line changes, it becomes Chou-earth, with Sibblings relative attached (helpers): earth produces metal... this is a good sign for you. You'll get a lot of support in your recoverning.
When the host line changes, it becomes Hai-water, with Assets relative attached (you'll need to spend a lot of money for your treatment).
Water produces wood and controls fire. This is not a good sign for you:
seems like money would probe affect the treatment.
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How will my state progress, well, or will there be further complications?
(http://fivearts.org/fileserver/images/2019/12/27/Wwwwwww.png)
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Hi ren, regarding your point 3 in the previous post, Xi Shen is what produces the Yong Shen. In Liu Yao we usually use the term Yuan Shen instead of Xi Shen.
What produces the Ji Shen is Chou Shen (Hostile God).
Here are the Chinese characters, if needed:
- Yong Shen 用神
- Xi Shen 喜神
- Yuan Shen 元神
- Ji Shen 忌神
- Chou Shen 仇神
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@Gmuli ...
Next of it you will notice that step by step confronted with some difficulties to combine ..
I need some time to present this issue
Is named : Dual modulation method ...
Tt.
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Dual Modulation Method (on Liu Yao usage.)
This method actually is very simple. Summarized in one sentence,
Using the relationship between Useful God and Ghost to determine the prosperity or Decline of Health condition."
Is this method of judgment right?
It can be said that it is correct, but is not comprehensive,
In fact, there are two kinds of judgments in Ghost line. [see below A / B ]
A: PART [Parents / Husband / Self/ ]
以疾病来说，In terms of disease,
鬼爻代表疾病，Ghosts line represent diseases
是卦中的凶煞，inside this gua there is a fierce evil ,
但是如果是占父母长辈之病，but if made divination for parents or elders long life (for analysis) this taken as direase,
鬼爻虽然也代表疾病，ghost line also represent disease,
但是它同时又是生父母的， but iif there is something that giving birth of a parent,
是卦中的原神。on this case is the Original god.
另外如果是妻子算丈夫病，In addition, if a wife asking for her husband's illness,
鬼爻代表疾病，Ghost line represents the disease,
但是同时又代表丈夫，but at the same time it represents the husband.
是卦中的用神。within this hexagram surely there is a Useful God
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还有比如预测自己的疾病，For example,if someone predict his own disease,
而卦中鬼爻持世，Suppose inside an hexagram there is a ghost holding SELF Line,
生世也是如此，if there is something that produces SELF Line too,
这些情况下， on this case,
鬼爻虽然也是代表疾病的凶煞，although Ghost line is the representative of the Demon Ghost disease,
但它同时又是原神、用神，nevertheless this is an Original God [that produce ], for the Useful God,
这种情况就叫“煞做用神”。 this is called "a Fiend is serving Useful God."
卦中出现了这种“煞做用神”的情况，A Gua appeared in this case "a Fiend is serving Useful God." in real situation,
判断的方法就有根本的改变，There is a fundamental change in the method of judgment,
这个时候鬼爻依然代表疾病，But again the Ghost line still represent disease,
但是用法完全相反，yet this method taken as Useful is entirely in reverse order.
当鬼爻旺相的时候，when the Ghost line is in Wang Xiang,
反而代表病情不严重，Instead, it means that the condition is not serious,
鬼爻有生助， If the Ghost line has a helping hand,
反而代表医药有效；instead can represent the effectiveness of a medicine;
鬼爻休囚被克制，If ghost Line is prisoned and restrained,
反而代表病情严重，instead of it represent the seriousness of an illness,
更得鬼爻真空真破失陷无用，moreover if ghost line is in real void or real break loose [ form month] then fall as useless ,
那就是绝症。必死之象。That means terminal illness. Certainly have death shape.
A:Summary
* And if you count the parents disease,
* or a woman for her husband's disease,
* or asking for ones own sickness were ghost holding SELF yao [and another line ] produce SELF,
On these above cases the REVERSE is true:
> If Ghost line is in Wang stage then is condition light, and
> If receive help there will be rescue from medical treatment,
But :
> If Ghost line is on rest or prison is taken as there is severity of illness,and
> If further there is restraint then this case is difficult for treatment, also
> if Ghost line fall Empty [Kongwan] or Hiding [Fushen ] is an incurable disease.
B: PART[ Wife / Brothers / Children / Self]
When a husband predict that your wife is sick, the ghost line will drain money line;
Predicting the illness of brothers or a friend, Ghost line subdue Brothers;
Predictions for childrens disease, the Ghost line indirectly consume childrens line;
And to predict one's own disease,
when ghost line subdue or drain or consume SELF yao, under these circumstances,
B: summary
> if ghost line is in flourish [Wang] represent the severity of illness,
> if ghost line receive helping assistance this represent difficult treatment,
But:
> if ghost line is in decline [shuai] the condition is light ,
> if this ghost line is restraint means is easily for medical treatment.
Personal comment :
This method is not all inclusive and needs further neccesary attention when in use..
But can support one's judgment as a second look ..!!
Anyway can succesfuly support 7 of 10 cases...
The Judgement is yours
Tientai
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B: PART[ Wife / Brothers / Children / Self]
When a husband predict that your wife is sick, the ghost line will drain money line;
Predicting the illness of brothers or a friend, Ghost line subdue Brothers;
Predictions for childrens disease, the Ghost line indirectly consume childrens line;
And to predict one's own disease,
when ghost line subdue or drain or consume SELF yao, under these circumstances,
And if we ask for a parent, then the ghost line, will make the parent sick by producing it...
The stronger the parent line becomes the more... Hmm... Wait, does that make sense?!
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Many thanks @ren .. for your clearer interpretation ..
I appreciate it so much .!!
I was hurry to present this issue before new year ... haha !!
I wish you and all members be happy for the New Year 2020 .
BTW :
鬼爻休囚被克制，If ghost Line is prisoned and restrained,
Inside Wild Cranes book very often is using "prison "and "restrained" as coming from timliness of the month. !!
Tientai
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@Tientai
My problem is that I'm comparing every rule we mention with a lot of readings. And so far the problems mentioned become very big when we look at real life examples. I'm guessing most of us are doing that, so the idea we can just use Officer no matter what else is going on(except parent), should very soon show that it isn't as reliable as one may think.
@ren
Furthermore, if the Ghost yao is True Void or True Po, it become useless, the illness is incurable. This is an indication of (certain) death.
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=897.0 (http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=897.0)
But if you look at the example with the tumor and blood problems, the original Officer line was in void. Was also on the others line.
Yet it seems the thing that we all(I think all?) agreed with, is that specific line doesn't show any disease at all, as almost no one of us seemed to be looking at it with the idea it shows a problem.
So the idea that Officer in void read as desease is incurable or that this was showing curtain death seems to be the one thing we all agree is not actually how it works so far.
Anyway, I don't want to argue about that, as we do seem to have some differences in how we read health examples, that seemed to be getting bigger as we go more into it. Its all good, though as the general agreement seems to be supporting the same ideas, will just stop commenting on that specific thing, everyone is free to use whatever has proven it works for them, after all. : )
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Dear @Gmuli ..
What you mention to @ren :
(https://i.ibb.co/Qv7cCqR/illness.png) (https://ibb.co/nMq0nVv)
.. is not so ..l!
Someone asking for his own illnes ..
So Self line is judged in contest with Officer line
This case akin to B: part
Self line child is much stronger by the Month (season ) .. and Officer is not .. even more in void .
So the disease is light and easily treatable case ..!!
...
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@Gmuli. .
I don't understand what you mean ".. stop commenting " ..!!!
I am not inventing something new and don't please anyone to accept my ideas after all..!!
But for this sensitive part concerning "Health " .. all we must commenting ..!!
You could better say " .. I am not Tag or participate " ..!!
Have good health for the New coming year .. that's a comment 😂😂😂😂
Tientai
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鬼爻休囚被克制 = rest / prison / is restrained
被 introduces a passive sentence [that's a grammatical term]
Tientai mentioned somewhere that it refers to "timeliness of the month". Yes, it is indeed about timeliness. But unlike Bazi, in Liu Yao timeliness is based on the month and day.
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还有比如预测自己的疾病，For example,if someone predict his own disease,
而卦中鬼爻持世，Suppose inside an hexagram there is a ghost holding SELF Line,
生世也是如此，if there is something that produces SELF Line too,
这些情况下， on this case,
鬼爻虽然也是代表疾病的凶煞，although Ghost line is the representative of the Demon Ghost disease,
但它同时又是原神、用神，nevertheless this is an Original God [that produce ], for the Useful God,
这种情况就叫“煞做用神”。 this is called "a Fiend is serving Useful God."
卦中出现了这种“煞做用神”的情况，A Gua appeared in this case "a Fiend is serving Useful God." in real situation,
判断的方法就有根本的改变，There is a fundamental change in the method of judgment,
这个时候鬼爻依然代表疾病，But again the Ghost line still represent disease,
但是用法完全相反，yet this method taken as Useful is entirely in reverse order.
当鬼爻旺相的时候，when the Ghost line is in Wang Xiang,
反而代表病情不严重，Instead, it means that the condition is not serious,
鬼爻有生助， If the Ghost line has a helping hand,
反而代表医药有效；instead can represent the effectiveness of a medicine;
Not necessarily so. Look at Quiz 29- A person made a Divination for his Own illness (http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=483.0), the person died not long after! Ghost line produces SELF Line, and Ghost line is in Wang Xiang (Day) but it could not be a helping hand in this case.
Personal comment :
This method is not all inclusive and needs further neccesary attention when in use..
But can support one's judgment as a second look ..!!
Anyway can succesfuly support 7 of 10 cases...
The Judgement is yours
Yes I agree, further necessary attention!
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被 introduces a passive sentence [that's a grammatical term]
Thanks Jlim. I find Grammar books somewhat difficult to understand sometimes. It is by seeing examples of every day usage (especially in the CM world)
which helps brings things into reality.
ren
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