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Library => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Gmuli on April 17, 2020, 11:13:38 AM
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I haven't mention it before, but I have my reasons to think long time ago western astrology and chinese metaphysics(at least what that was back then) were used together as one coherent system.
This is long to go into and it will involve old calendars, historical medals and other stuff that isn't for here now. Yet it brings the interesting idea of starting a topic with some basic ideas and rules behind western astrology.
If nothing else at least we will be able to understand the kid form india and his predictions somewhat better.
I'm still learning here. While I have been in more then a few seminars for it, have studied systems connected to it like tarot and kabbalah for most of my life and have close people that have studied it in great depth, I never focused much on it until lately.
So here will try to point some of the major factors that are often looked at. Similar to how in some books will only be looked as what symbolizes the branch of the year and in some schools there will be a very strong focus on the "structure", basically month branch and its hidden stems, so in western astrology there is a strong focus on 2 aspects of the system.
One is where the Sun was at the time of birth.
The other is the so called Ascendant.
Lets start with the Sun.
First, if you want to follow along you need astrology software. I'm currently using zet, its free in its lite version and it offers a lot more then other ones out there for me.
Zet we can get from here.
http://zaytsev.com/downloads.html
We download the file, extract it and install it. Then run the ZET 9 Lite .exe file.
We should see a similar image to this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gp00xMD3/zet.png)
Here we can see a few rings. The most outter one on the default screen has roman numbers(I, II, III etc).
This are the houses.
The inner ring from that one will have zodiacal signs and that are basically constellations.
Similar to this:
For example aries will be this ♈
Taurus this ♉
Etc
So this is basically the night sky above us at time of asking.
Each planet of the Solar System will fall into one of this constellations/signs at each moment of the day/month/year.
So basically we see the map of the night sky and its relation to the Earth and the Solar System for the time we ask about(someones birth, usually, but there are also parts of astorlogy called "prognostic" that works very similar to QMDJ, we ask a question and depended on the current position of the planets and constellations we find the answer).
Now we know the outer rings. That are the houses, what they mean is long to go for first post. Then we have the signs, and the signs are the stars and part of the sky a planet will fall into.
After that we get to the more inner rings and that happens with the planets.
That shows the position of the Planet at each moment of time.
Lets find the Sun at the current time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gp00xMD3/zet.png)
The movement of the Sun during the year is very connected to how the month branch works in the solar calendar. As the Sun enters this constellations at the same time each year more or less.
To find the Sun and where it is currently we need only 2 things. We need the Sun symbol and we need the symbol of the constellation it is in. Mouse over different parts of the map can provide much of that.
The symbol for the Sun is ☉(circle and dot) while we already saw Aries(the Ram in old civilizations) symbol as ♈.
We look at the chart/map and we can see that the Sun falls into the borders of Aries, currently.
(we will work only with tropical maps, not sidereal unless there is a reason)
Knowing where the Sun was, is knowing our Sun sign. So when in the west someone asks what sign we are, we know they ask where was the Sun at the time of our birth. : )
Thats it, may continue it at some point, so far this should be enough to be able to see where are all the planets in relation to our Earth currently, where they will be at different points of time and a little about how they interact with each other.
The interactions are the lines with triangles or squeres in the most inner ring, they are very similar to the relation of Chinese Metaphysics, even though more connected to a planet and context then always static.
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Before we move on to more specific stuff its good to clarify about tropical vs sidereal astrology.
We say that the map shows the Earth in the middle, then each planet with the constelation "behind" it(as that is where it looks like from Earth.
That is not entirely true for the tropical map. In there Aries is positioned at spring equinox, so its just a moment when the wheel starts to rise from.
That is not the real position where the constellations are actually now. The Earth is tilted, people usually look at the tilt as fixed, however its not(again because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles), however the important part is that is changing with time. And when we say or sing about the age of Aquarius that is the movement that we view as the planet moving to it. So in the actual situation Aries won't always start at the equinox(and currently it doesn't) it will change with time.
Anyway, more on that later if it seems good idea. The part I wanted to clarify is that tropical astrology seems to be very connected to the way the Month Branch works. The Solar Terms are position on the equinoxes/solstices and so are the 12 zodiacal signs in tropical chart.
Of course, when compared to the branches they seem to be tilted... And while that may seem strange at first(I was wondering about that for many years), it actually has very good explanation now.
Sidereal chart is basically what is in reality. The constellations are where they actually are and while that may seem more accurate at first glance, the connection with the Five Arts doesn't seem as easy to see, in my view. And there is more to research, so may change with time, but so far.
Well, we are viewing sources that got it right about the current situation in other topics... One interesting source is also Gahl Sasson. In his last book he got it right too, will link a video from him, so there is some context. Also so we start to get into somewhat more practical part of how to get some meaning of parts of a chart.
You can see parts of it are very similar to systems of the Five Arts(QMDJ more then anything else, but still), yet parts are very connected to the planets and their movement from our point of view and that is somewhat different.
He made some tarot/kabbala and astrology seminars in my country, some awesome stuff(the meditations especially).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UaO-9ced0E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UaO-9ced0E)
This was december 2019 and is more connected to the end of these year, also only about the conjunction.
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In reference to Gmuli's comments, the Chinese Astrology of the 4 Pillars and the Western Chaldean Astrology are ALL right, once they were ONE. Although it seems incredible, it is.
The story is summarized as follows: in southeastern Mesopotamia, the last of the ancient empires were the Chaldeans, because although they were Semites by race, they received information from the Sumerians who ruled there, long before and came from Hindustan. The Sumerians had a connection with China through the ties they had with another older and more powerful Civilization: Mohenjo Daro and Harappa, which in turn had the most sophisticated maritime fleets before 4,000 BC and had ties to Imperial China.
As Western Astrology (Chaldea) is well known, it gravitates around 12 Houses, which is what we know today. Years ago a French researcher had found Chaldean Birth Charts of 8 Houses ruined from Ancient Babylon. As we well know, the 4 Pillars of Chinese Astrology have 4 Celestial Stems and 4 Terrestrial Branches or "archetypal animals", that is, 8 Grids. Based on the above, and personally, I tried to merge the 2 astrologies: the Western and the Eastern (BaZi), and I really succeeded (or at least partially) using mathematical algorithms at the expense of the musical notes (7) of Western classical music to be able to calculate and separate the respective Houses. I managed to get some natal charts with planets, but within 8 Houses, that is, adapting the BaZi. However, I found it very tedious to start building a "new doctrine." In fact, I destroyed most of that information because it seemed impractical, I had to do a lot of trial and error. And at the end of the day I thought it was a bad idea, especially since Chinese BaZi already exists. As a consequence, the easiest and simplest way was to learn well the technique of the 4 Classic Pillars that already has a body of Doctrine Elaborated for millennia.
But I confirm the thought of Gmuli, BaZi Chinese Astrology and Chinese Astrology were once a SINGLE. It is even ratified by the fact that the Chinese Astrology of Emperor Zi Wei Dou Shu also has 12 Palaces, as well as the 12 Houses of Western Chaldean Astrology. It seems silly, but it is not. That they parted through the timeline, that's another story.
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[Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2gMeUnSb_8U&list=PLEzEsc3em_0rQJWJXX_euzTDri5e_jZmT&index=1
Here is a good video for you to get started.
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I liked the video, good thing about western astrology is that there is mountains of free and available info in English and even just with that someone can start making very good readings.
Personally, I use Koch division of the houses.
I have still much to learn about it, but there were some very clear examples that show that this is what works best for me.
In western astrology one of the big thing people are expecting for a while now is the so called "age of aquarius".
Some of the astrologers I like, seem to think that with the next Solstice(around 21 december this year) this may finally move on a higher gear.
Its somewhat complex to explain, if someone wants I can go more into it, but lets just say its good news for most people and the way its explain in the literature it makes a lot of sense...
About the western astrology and the five arts, if someone is curious I can post some more info, but it may be difficult to get unless we understand the Solar Terms and what they do very well.
Other then that, there is so much going on from the point of view of western astrology that I didn't knew how to continue the topic, but this youtube series seem nice, there is overwhelming amount of info all around the net as well. I personally liked The Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need, name is silly somewhat, but it is a good book for starting out.
Gahl's Kabbala stuff is very nice as well, even more so the meditation. And working with all that and the sephirot is a good step toward changing stuff, be that in western chart or in bazi(as the stems and branches are imprint that happens in the Causal layers of our aura, it isn't set in stone, if we know how we can change parts of it).
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I'm wondering how and if I should continue this... There are countless materials in the net, for each aspect of the system, while that is good and I don't want to repeat stuff that is already there, there is also the idea that sometimes its difficult to find our way in so much info. So will point some interesting approaches/ideas one can use. Up to anyone individually interested in these, to expand on all of it.
Good thing to know, is that the part of astrology that works as answering question is called "horary astrology". Much of it is very similar to QMDJ and other similar systems - we have a map, we look at it at the right time and it contains the answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horary_astrology
There is still "self' and the answer/outcome in some form, much info in the net about details.
About the other stuff, well there are rings, if you look at the map.
The outer ring has roman letters(I, V, X etc)
These are the houses. This shows where something will take effect. For example house 4- it will effect family and close friends.
Similar to how we make Images based on the pillars in bazi, or based on line position in Liu Yao, it shows what part of our life will be affected, only there are 12 parts here.
Its made in accordance to the hour of asking.
Ring below are the Signs, the one below are the Planets.
As in the five arts, we stack Images, when we see something repeating we say something will show up.
Images come from the Planets, Signs, Houses and their relation(squares, conjunctions etc.)
Conjunction is similar to combination, Opposition to Clash and Trine to San He combination.
Its a little more complex, but in simple terms this is very, very similar, enough to be used in practice.
There is a movement here, though, it always start from conjunction and similar to the Five Arts it goes through contracting then expanding again, I assume there is in the Five Arts as well, but I haven't gotten to relating them in that way yet.
And as in bazi, the Images coming from the place itself are more important. Cancer loves family and is related to the Moon, yet family image coming from house IV, is much stronger then the one coming with cancer. Female Image is more strong coming from the Moon, then from the Cancer itself... Overall, just need some time and practice to figure out how the priorities work, but we do that in bazi as well, with pillars, 10 shens and all other stuffs.
(Parent line can show mother for a male, yet if its in the Hour Pillar the position isn't right, so unlikely we will take it as actual parent, as the image of the pillar is stronger for this specific thing)
Lets look at the nodes...
The nodes are the positions where the Moons movement intersect the ecliptic, apparently.
They are always opposite each other.
Simple idea here - south node is what we have developed in past incarnations. In that same sense, its much of what we are letting go of, now, as this is what we try to use time and time again, as its what we are familiar with. That may prevent us from growing and using what is out there and is unfamiliar yet.
And that(what is out there and we are trying to learn to use this life) is what the North Node is about.
Again we check their Images, North Node in House 4 - we are trying to learn how to interact, understand and flow into the idea of family and close friends. While that means South Node will be in house 10, so we already cleared out carrier, prominence etc.
We also can look at the relations of other planets to them, and see how our life now is situated based on the experience we gathered and what is there to be understood this time around.
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There is a part that I use to apply sometimes in BaZi Analysis and it is what I call: SECONDARY ANALYSIS.
For example, the Three San 1 He 2 Units are fully compatible with the Radioangulation schemes of Western Astrology (as mentioned by Gmuli). In my personal case, sometimes and especially in Synastry Readings (studies of couples or Comparative Natal Charts), I usually apply a Mixed Method of BaZi versus Chaldean Astrology. In that sense, a person who is a Cancer sign born in the Year of the Buffalo is not the same as another who is a Libra sign of the Year of the Buffalo, or another who is a Virgo sign of the same Year of the Buffalo. The characteristics of these 3 types of personalities change markedly and their destiny also. And when analyzing BaZi Seasons, it is sometimes very useful to do this kind of Combinatorial Analysis.
The same happens, when a Solar Revolution from Western Astrology is used, in which the Zodiac is converted into a 7 House Structure (it is a kind of Stepped Biorhythm) and thus, you can make an interpolation with a year Xìng Nián 幸determined.
Likewise, the Lunar Cycles or Phases that are so common in Western Astrology applications can be complemented with Energetic Dates of the Chinese Calendar, when making detailed evaluations and diagnosis of dates.
Much skill, dexterity and knowledge of the 2 Astrologies must be acquired in order to do Mixed Readings. Not everything can be done, but it is true that there are certain connecting energy threads.
It is very likely that the Purple Star Astrology has greater insights with Western Astrology, considering that the first uses 12 Palaces and the second 12 Houses. However, I do not know the ZWDS Doctrine in its essence.
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Well... Saturn is out of Aquarius now... Wasn't disappointing at all, had big expectations and it did cover much more then that. Now, however, its getting even more interesting as Pluto is in and out of Aquarius(currently back to Capricorn until September).
This is big stuff, as having the most innert of structures going into it for the next 30 years suggests changes on level most people may not be expecting.
Anyway, all this are very big topics and our current recommendation is this:
https://www.amazon.com/Astrology-2023-Traversing-Bridge-Movement/dp/B0BFWDRL3Q
He has one of them everyyear and its very, very good read.
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Zodiac astrology is based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos. Ptolemy used the concept of fire and water. His planets are divided into categories. Dry, wet, hot, cold. Ptolemy also wrote that everything revolves around the Earth. The concept of states is reminiscent of Wu Xing. But what I consider zodiac astrology is not the original concept of Ptolemy. Karma - Ptolemy has nothing like that. Black Moon and a lot of other things were added for no apparent reason or where.
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Zodiac astrology is based on Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos. Ptolemy used the concept of fire and water. His planets are divided into categories. Dry, wet, hot, cold. Ptolemy also wrote that everything revolves around the Earth. The concept of states is reminiscent of Wu Xing. But what I consider zodiac astrology is not the original concept of Ptolemy. Karma - Ptolemy has nothing like that. Black Moon and a lot of other things were added for no apparent reason or where.
In his work he did mention "the old masters" he learned from... So where did it start... People, today seem to consider it was in Babylonian times. But if we read about Sumer, we can see much of the culture and religion from Babylon and Akkad, seem to have started from Sumer.
Same from the old testament(Torah), actually, situations there are also in Sumerian tablets, but in more detailed form...
So where did it start... Who knows. But if we believe in Ptolemys work itself, it didn't started from there and his view to it was... Limited at best.
The reason one often sees him in this is because his text is consider foundation of astronomy, and science love that...
Black Moon and a lot of other things were added for no apparent reason or where.
People use what has proven to work.Or what they noticed...
And that is how the best cuisines are made!people keep adding random crap and suddenly... We have mishmash!And who doesn't like mishmash...
In any case, if you don't like the black moon, you can use any other colored Moon you prefer.
I personally also doesn't enjoy black Moon, I think they may have named it something more creative and more fitting to its actual calculation, like "Where-did- that-thing-go-we-could-see-it-not-long-ago...?!"
Yet since its too long I assume people saw black moon is shorter, they decided on that... I guess people will likely stay with it.
Does it carry meaning, the moment when the Moon is furthest away from us... We know the distance of the Moon has effect on tides and stuff, seems silly to think it doesn't have effect on us.
Yet one can freely ignore it, why not...
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The black moon is the coordinates opposite the Moon. You can also make black Mercury or Saturn. There is no calculation. Ptolemy's system is simple. And it is based on his other works and the views of his contemporaries. For example, playing cards with four suits are also based on the same system. Gypsies tell fortunes on them according to the old canons. It's easier for me. I took a course on BaZi from a person who was unable to use zodiac astrology in real life. And switched to QiMenDunJia. After a long search. And besides Ptolemy there are no reliable sources. So I used it.
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I have some doubts... ; )
Bazi is nice, its good you are happy with what you are using...
I don't plan to take much courses, moving forward. What I need, I think I have, now is just staying around the communities, as I do enjoy metaphysics and some social aspect help others to learn faster and one to rearrange what they know as well.
So different motivation I guess.
But lets agree to disagree on the other stuff. We view it very differently, and that is, of course, fine by itself.
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Undoubtedly. That's why I'm writing here. Having studied the primary sources, astrology is the same. Everywhere there is a pantheon of Gods. Everywhere there are procedures for worshiping the Gods. Everywhere there is fate - like the will of the Gods. In BaZi, the Gods are the trunks of heaven, in zodiac astrology - planets and stars. Therefore, I am very surprised how easily in zodiac astrology many other Gods are added to the pantheon of Gods. And the whole concept collapses.
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Undoubtedly. That's why I'm writing here. Having studied the primary sources, astrology is the same. Everywhere there is a pantheon of Gods. Everywhere there are procedures for worshiping the Gods. Everywhere there is fate - like the will of the Gods. In BaZi, the Gods are the trunks of heaven, in zodiac astrology - planets and stars. Therefore, I am very surprised how easily in zodiac astrology many other Gods are added to the pantheon of Gods. And the whole concept collapses.
I can respect that. Reminds me of this.
Its from the Zohar, translated by the chariot people:
http://www.workofthechariot.com/PDF/NewSifraDetzniyutha2.pdf
This is comparable to a person whose dwelling was among the mountains, and he (she)
knew no townsfolk. He used to sow wheat and ate the wheat grains as they are. One day he
entered the town. They offered him good bread.
Said that person, “What is this for?” They said, “It is bread to eat.” He ate and it was
singularly pleasant to his taste. He said, “And of what is this made?” They said, “Of wheat
grains.” Then they offered him cakes kneaded in oil. He tasted of them. He said, “And these, of
what are they made?”
They said, “Of wheat grains.” Then they offered him pastry prepared for royalty, kneaded
with honey and oil. He tasted them and said, “And these, of what are they made?” They said,
“Of wheat grains.” He said, “Surely I am the master of all of these, for I eat the essence of all of
these, which is wheat.”
And because of this disposition he knew as NOT (al) the delicacies of the world, and they
were lost to him. It is likewise for him who seizes the general principle of wisdom4 , and knows
as NOT (al) all the pleasing delicacies that derive from the general principle.”
Did the person missed on that... I think so. Yet sometimes there are many reasons one will choose that road as well. All is good I think, depends on what we think is needed in each situation.
I personally have cases of choosing both approaches, depending what is more appropriate... In western astrology I would focus on what works, I use nodes and stuff, they aren't planets, either...
But I don't have a reason to just use planets, there is more in there worth investigating and using, if one is focused on that, in my humble view. I'm not that much, however, I use mostly for global tendency as in that its indispensable in my experience.
How about you?
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I don't use zodiac astrology due to many inconsistencies. But I know well what it is built on. Philosophy of antiquity. And the zodiac does not correspond to this concept now. BaZi has also been edited. But the correct translation of the Tao Te Jing and the ancient hieroglyphs return the original meaning to the texts. The BaZi is more consistent with the Kybalion and other similar texts. Surprisingly. In general, original Taoism answered all the questions for me. And as for the text you cited. When people can't compete with me, they write something like this. I'm not surprised anymore :). I thought you would give a link to the pantheon of Sumerian gods, where, according to you, zodiac astrology came from. But you will not give such information. Because she doesn't exist. You don't even know how many gods there are. More than two thousand. More than half of whom are kings. Now tell me how, out of two thousand, it turned out to be 12. I find it interesting and funny at the same time. Thank you. I study ancient sources. Very often these are late fakes. And you mentioned the Torah. But they didn’t say anything that Judaism is a religion that destroyed the religion of bull worship. The Jews call it the golden calf. A religion that despises wealth. Therefore, the statues were made of gold. 牛. Which is now called a horse in BaZi (!). You have little idea of the processes that took place then. And on the basis of which astrology is based. Because you use modern sources of information.
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When people can't compete with me, they write something like this.
Well, I'm sure that makes most conversations very healthy and beneficial for you, right? : )
I'm not entirely sure I want to know, but lets check... So what exactly do you think we are competing in?
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Competitions require rules. Therefore, we have not a competition, but a misunderstanding. When I ask people about something and use the knowledge from the sources I present. I have one goal. Find out something more. But usually the interlocutor does not have such a knowledge base, and starts telling me about grain or something like that :). Because the original sources are very different from what is used now. And people cannot clearly explain why such changes occurred. Oh, and of course now everyone is excluding Gods. Although sacrifices to the Gods are the foundation of any astrology. And everything that was written by me. This is my personal subjective opinion :).
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OK, lets go back...
So lets start here...
I thought you would give a link to the pantheon of Sumerian gods, where, according to you, zodiac astrology came from. But you will not give such information. Because she doesn't exist.
What is happening here?You think Sumerians didn't had gods, or that there is no information on that today?
Gods... That is just a word. If we use it for Planets, for Stems, for religions and for everything else around, that word may lose its meaning on the way. But whatever meaning it may have seems very different for us.
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OK, lets go back...
So lets start here...
I thought you would give a link to the pantheon of Sumerian gods, where, according to you, zodiac astrology came from. But you will not give such information. Because she doesn't exist.
What is happening here?You think Sumerians didn't had gods, or that there is no information on that today?
Gods... That is just a word. If we use it for Planets, for Stems, for religions and for everything else around, that word may lose its meaning on the way. But whatever meaning it may have seems very different for us.
You don't know the topic being discussed. I am writing to you in plain text that the Sumerians have over 2k Gods. Of which more than half are kings. Everything about the Gods is written in the source texts. If for you Gods are just words. Of course, nothing will work out for you in astrology. Any.
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Could be. I've read Enuma Enlish a while ago, seem to be a dozen or two names there we could attribute as gods.Some call them Planets in a lot more literal way then we do here, however, but that is fine as well.
While if we count Sitchins work we have pictograms of En.lil, En.ki Anu and others, but that seem to be falling into "Nefilim" and not "gods"... But then if we decide to call them Gods...
Don't really know. : )
I'm big fan of the idea words are not what they represent, so yes, in my view "gods" is a word. Its also something so obvious, that it feels strange to have to write it. Its not whatever we call with it, we may call with it a planet, or a feeling or anything, really, nor is that the same in each place worshiping or calculating something.
May mean I will never find astrology that works for me, who knows. But is not a concept I will abandon anytime soon, as in metaphysics I view that as more important then any system.
As otherwise people tent to get a lot of... Thinking problems, have seen it in any system I've seen so far in metaphysics and to some degree even in science.
Just my view, of course.
About the Ram, Pisces and Aquarius - as far as I'm aware that is just the precession of the equinox. Earths tilting pointing to specific sign every 2k years or something...Started around Jesus the Pisces and in a hundred or so years, the "new age" people sink about...
No idea what is your explanation about it, but no gods there that I'm aware of, as well.
I think we should agree to disagree and move on?This won't lead anywhere, too much fundamental stuff we view in a different way.
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The funniest thing. What I understand is that if there is a concept and methods. Then, to achieve the right result, two different people cannot have different views and methods within the same astrology. Just like in physics. There is a formula, there are initial data, there is a result. Therefore the name metaphysics is applied to lies. That astrology also gives the right result. But our conversation with you shows that no. Because you admit that there may be different methods. But in fact, no. For a true result in a certain astrology, only one method is possible. I know this method for BaZi. I don’t know such a method for zodiac astrology. And I haven’t met people who could show it.
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I combine Western and Chinese astrology. for example my forecast for 2024:The Dragon is the 12th house by position, so everything secret and intimate will burst into our lives. Since the tree is an educational activity, I believe the peak of astrological education will be, although in recent years interest in astrology among ordinary people has increased significantly, but in 2024 all records will be broken. Therefore, go ahead! record courses, master classes, conferences, etc., etc. Also, since the dragon is wooden, this is an image of printed literature, which means that some kind of book will be published, the main book, an important book because the sign is imperial, so we keep an eye on the latest in astrological literature or the general release of secret materials.
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There are exactly 12 of them because it is along them that the sun moves, that’s all.
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Spiritsfan: As long as you are happy all is good. If not, then one may need to revise stuff, no matter what others may say. : )
Milla: Makes sense. I liked this, lately, as well:
https://www.loktinfengshui.com.au/2024-yang-wood-dragon-heaven-luck-forecasts/
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Therefore, the statues were made of gold. 牛. Which is now called a horse in BaZi (!).
Very interesting, thank you. The horse is the 10th house, which speaks of the podium/pedestal.
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I'm talking about the accuracy of astrological forecasts and the history of astrology. These questions have no impact on my happiness. Replacing unprofessionalism with sophistry is a very cheap trick. Surface. But popular among metaphysicians :).
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I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry :) This is proof of a unified system.
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I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry :) This is proof of a unified system.
Most people here know me from the site. info. Therefore, no one enters into a discussion with me. I don't care how long you do what. I'm only interested in the accuracy of the result. Show off your skills in the free card reading request section. Usually after a couple of months the level of knowledge of a person is already clear. And his performance. There are fewer requests here than on . info. Therefore, it may take more time. And believe me, competition works wonders for selection. Sometimes they tell me that I don't know BaZi. And then these same people ask questions on topics that are revealed only in the Taoist BaZi. For example, the pillars of luck and the northern and southern solar hemispheres. And I remember these people to whom I responded to inquiries. And I watch with interest their attempts to find information. Because I gave them an accurate description of their life and prognosis. Although they were rude to me in response. And when everything happens as I described, passengers begin to look for information. And the information is exclusive. And I find out from it that it was I who advised the person for free. I really hope that you will surprise everyone with your forecasting skills.
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I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry :) This is proof of a unified system.
@Milla
The message to which you responded, I wrote not to you, but to Gmuli. But since you answered it, let’s immediately look at a couple of cases to find out your level. Like professionals.
The cases were previously published publicly.
. Man. March 12, 1974. 5-44. After 2012, He fell ill with blood cancer. Leukemia. Spent a lot of money on treatment. Cured. Question. What caused his illness and recovery. Your version.
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Oh, let's not brag about anything, compete or prove anything. You are the best, judging by this bazi!
This is your natal, right?
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I combine Western and Chinese astrology. for example my forecast for 2024:The Dragon is the 12th house by position, so everything secret and intimate will burst into our lives. Since the tree is an educational activity, I believe the peak of astrological education will be, although in recent years interest in astrology among ordinary people has increased significantly, but in 2024 all records will be broken. Therefore, go ahead! record courses, master classes, conferences, etc., etc. Also, since the dragon is wooden, this is an image of printed literature, which means that some kind of book will be published, the main book, an important book because the sign is imperial, so we keep an eye on the latest in astrological literature or the general release of secret materials.
Here is another interesting video about the Period Change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlUQTVRPAQ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlUQTVRPAQ8)
Here there is the fascinating idea that its not just fire 9, but it also carries its yin aspect with Xun, so its 4-9 and it creates Metal.
Have you seen this way of formulating it before?
If we look Period 8, it does make sense to count both.
For example nature/climate activism as Wood Yang forcefully trying to change the structure, yet structure can't really change easily, as its "yang" aspect is image of "not moving".
With time that activism moving to images of Nature/Earth, then being hit by Yang Wood from corporations with sometimes greedy sometimes just new methods of creating resistance and backslash from people etc.
Same for many movements out there that showed up last few decades I think.
Covid and new technologies etc. all seem to be also valid if we add 3.Zhen as an Yin aspect of it creating Wood with Gen 8, as well.
And I find this fits as well, to what you said about metaphysical studies being more appreciated, although i Get you meant the next year, but with Plato in Aquarius, the Fire period may also carry Images of that, I'm starting to think... I don't know, though, we will see I guess.
But if that is the case, I could definitely appreciate some less 3.Zhen going on in the background I think..
The Dragon is the 12th house
Then Wu Horse as 10th house, this is interesting connection and, of course, it makes much sense, will look into it when I have a chance.
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I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry :) This is proof of a unified system.
Oh, let's not brag about anything, compete or prove anything. You are the best, judging by this bazi!
This is your natal, right?
Why did you spend 17 of the best years of your life on astrology? :) What would be an example to prove that your astrology does not work?
And usually a person’s answers tell more about him than the person wants :). This is not my data.
I have a lot of data from people with autoimmune diseases. This is a pressing issue. In Taoist BaZi it is diagnosed in half a minute. These are usually the pillars of a person's luck. Or his closest relative. This allows me to help people before the onset of illness. And in other cases too. Therefore, the fact that you left the competition shows that you do not have a system, and astrology does not work. I won’t mock your forecast for 2024 now. Time will do this naturally at the end of 2024. And don't worry. You are not the only one. Who does not seek the truth, throwing false beliefs into the trash.
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Why did you spend 17 of the best years of your life on astrology? :) What would be an example to prove that your astrology does not work?
Oh no, I didn’t waste them in vain, I spent them with great benefit, comprehending this wonderful science and art at the same time. Mostly now I use Western astrology in answering specific questions (Horary astrology).
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I'm talking about the accuracy of astrological forecasts and the history of astrology. These questions have no impact on my happiness. Replacing unprofessionalism with sophistry is a very cheap trick. Surface. But popular among metaphysicians :).
Through time I've seen many that tried to sell me their gods. Some had good reasons for it... Others didn't.
For me, only reliable factor for someones belief system(and that is all we are talking about here, in my view) is how happy they are with what they are following/believing.
Their "professionalism" concerns me only if I buy goods or services from them. I don't see relevance of that in a free forum from random people I don't know. I don't expect professionalism in that setting, same way a I don't expect bus drivers to sing me songs.
Not that I mind, but none of us is there for that.
Their accuracy matters even less, even if I knew in what exactly target and scores they measure it, as I'm not in a tournament for "astrology" nor do I plan on joining one. Nor am I aiming for something in a free and open forum, so missing it doesn't seem big of a concern.
Their happiness, is the only real measure for a belief system, teaching and a god someone follows for me.
If someone doesn't seem happy with that they are following its unlikely to wonder more into what it is. And that can be perceived by their interactions with people around them, sometimes. Not always, there are other possible factors, but often enough.
So its not a trick. I'm not a pony. Is the only thing that matters for me and the fact you think how "professional" you are can replace it, seems strange in a free forum where professionalism has no relevance to what is happening.
As this is what mushrooms think, princes say. And we are not mushrooms.
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@Gmuli
You wrote:
In his work he did mention "the old masters" he learned from... So where did it start... People, today seem to consider it was in Babylonian times. But if we read about Sumer, we can see much of the culture and religion from Babylon and Akkad, seem to have started from Sumer.
Same from the old testament(Torah), actually, situations there are also in Sumerian tablets, but in more detailed form...
Ptolemy himself writes about this.
In a somewhat simplified and brief form, we examined how prediction can be made using astronomy, and also showed that it cannot go beyond the events occurring in a person’s environment and their consequences for him, in other words, prediction concerns the natural properties and energy of the soul and the body, their periodic illnesses, their endurance for a long or short period of time, in addition, all external circumstances with their inherent direct and natural connection with the original properties of nature, such as property and marriage, if we are talking about the body, and honor and dignity, if we mean the soul, and, finally, it has to do with what happens to them from time to time[14]. The remainder of our work will consist of a brief answer to the question of the usefulness of predictions[15], and first we should indicate how and taking into account what final result we will consider the meaning of the word “benefit”. If we turn to the qualities of the soul, what could be more useful for prosperity, joy and satisfaction in general than this kind of divination, by which we gain a complete understanding of the affairs of men and God? And if we direct attention to the qualities of the body, then such knowledge, better than anything else, will make us feel what is suitable and appropriate for the potentialities of each temperament. However, if prediction does not help in acquiring wealth, fame and the like, we are able to say the same about all philosophy, since it is not capable of providing for any of these things on its own. Nevertheless, we should not look for a justification in this for our denial of both philosophy and the art of prediction, and ignore its considerable advantages.
Why don’t they talk about God in zodiac astrology now? Mystery.
The Chaldean system [96 - This system, according to Boucher-Leclerc, is less “optimistic” than the systems of the Egyptians and Ptolemy himself, since it assigned larger terms and more first places in various signs to planets with unfavorable influence.] is based on consistency, undoubtedly , simpler and more plausible, although not so complete from the point of view of managing trigons and distribution of values; despite this, it can be easily understood even in the absence of a diagram [97 - In the “Paraphrase” of Proclus, this sentence is interpreted in such a way that it means the inability to perceive the Chaldean system without a diagram, due to the lack of the mentioned completeness in it.
. ..
At present, of the terms under consideration, in our opinion, those compiled according to the Egyptian system deserve the most confidence, both because the form used in their collection by the Egyptian authors gave them practicality and made them worthy of recording, and because , that for the most part the degrees of terms do not contradict the birth charts that were created on their basis as an example. However, since these same authors nowhere explain their classification or the values they obtained, the lack of consensus in describing the system could probably become a subject of suspicion or an object of criticism.
Correct me. Just in case. But in Tetrabiblos it is directly written that Egyptian astrology is taken as a basis. Wikipedia says that it is Sumerian. I don't know if this is a joke or not. Or specifically to identify people. Who is a pro and who is not. But why was this done? And I'm not selling any Gods. I only read ancient texts.
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@Gmuli
Why don’t they talk about God in zodiac astrology now? Mystery.
I think we may need a great definition of God to follow this. I will try to provide some summary of my view on the topic of old definitions of God, so we have what to start from. : )
Although I have to say I don't think the Chinese 神 has much to do with religion definition of God in most cases. Most religions, anyway.
I always enjoyed the idea metaphysics are the higher sciences. Stuff humanity hasn't collectively understood yet.
Since that is "higher sciences" and not "higher religions" I'm more comfortable without too many gods in there...
Does God suggest spirituality... Depends how we define spirituality. The way schools I enjoy do, it doesn't.
One think we view is that humanity, for a very long time worshiped what is called "planetary logos". That is the consciousness guiding the paths of people on Earth(very connected to the ionosphere, massive amounts of electricity in upper atmosphere).
But in the stream of consciousnesses we call "channel" this is a very near point of an endless path, more or less. Even the Sun(solar logos) is providing much more encompassing view. And so some worshiped the Sun.
Still very physical entity, however. With time, I would expect we will find more to worship. Other civilizations, seeding nations etc. And with some luck we may stop, someday, and figure out all is fellow travelers on an very long journey, just glimpses of it perceivable from Earth.
So the planetary Logos, however is still very physical entity, same as our personalities here on Earth, just a few initiations higher. Same for Solar Logos, although again, few initiations after that.
Does that mean we can become Logos someday... Sure, that is , in theory, how the whole process unfolds. Not to mention we already are for the endless amounts of cells, organs and levels in our physical body and nearby environment. In that sense, all the old "gods" were not spiritual, they were just fellow travelers on the same way we know. Yet taking more encompassing roles or bringing down spiritual aspects reflected from above. But from very nearby steps of it.
Astrology is just influences of Rays and cosmic flows arriving at us, together with the structure reflecting same patterns in ever expanding nature, in my view. So we don't need gods for astrology. Same as we don't need them for general magnetism/electricity.
Short way to say it - I'm not sure I can understand what you mean without an awesomely clear definition of what you mean by God. But it seems very different then what I view as god. And while we do have the "Source" as perspective and understanding that is soo far away from all this, that doesn't have much relevance, even if logically it probably should.
So can you define what you mean by God?
I'm also not entirely sure what we are talking about, to be fair. : )
I see its related to old sources of astrology and to Gods(so religion, for back then, most often). But I don't get what about them?
If its about "did astrology come from Sumer" then... Well, we have Kabbalistic astrology that definitely doesn't seem to have come from Sumer. They believe it was "received" on top of a mountain and strange or not I'm inclined to believe an outside infusion connected to it... We have vedic astrology with sources from Sanskrit that also doesn't seem connected to Sumer.
So did all that came from Egypt. Don't know. But I doubt it. More so vedic then the others. As I think the sanskrit sources are old, aren't they?
I have reasons to enjoy the idea of other places something can come from even more so in sanskrit. : )
But all this is for historians, I'm really not focusing on that. I'm interested in ancient sources only in the cases they manage to keep the view of something, that lost purity in the centuries after that. So we connect and can perceive it more fully. That is not always the case, can't say its even "often" the case. But where something started, I really don't know. One of the reason I kept repeating "I don't know". : )
So I don't fully understand what we are talking about. If its about gods - I generally avoid gods in metaphysics. I think I explained why. There are exceptions of course, but does that fall into definition of "god" is something we have to work with clear definition to say.
If its about Egypt, I have doubts it started from that, who knows, with some crafty switcheroos maybe its possible for much of it, but I don't think for all, as explained. : )
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@ Gmuli
I'm asking you about zodiac astrology. And you tell me about yourself :). And Egyptian astrology has a number of very interesting and unique aspects. Which, unfortunately, you know nothing about. There's a lot you don't know. But you don’t replenish knowledge. And you write a lot of unnecessary text. Sorry. You definitely won. I don’t know how to waste time like that :).
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Taoism and Greek mythology have the same point. Every material object has a soul. Oceanids - goddesses of the ocean. Very melodic. This is a tip for those who want to make accurate Zodiac predictions. Where to look for hidden answers. For me, there are too many similarities in these two religions - they are also philosophical teachings. And nowhere else is there such a division. Symbolism. Caduceus - as a symbol of the rebirth of the soul successively into a man. In the next life into a woman. And the Kybalion perfectly reveals the nuances of BaZi. Still, Hermes is what is now called Ancient Greece.
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Haha.. this is interesting
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I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry :) This is proof of a unified system.
Hello @Milla, I am also into medieval Western astrology as taught by Zoller, who was part of the Hindsight project, and who taught me through someone on a forum that I will not reveal here. I did not think I would find other practitioners of this astrology on this forum. I am glad that this is the case.
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Hello, @Ragdoll
Small world! :)