Second hexagram seems clear, not much to mention there... Returning Spirit does seem to happen often in medical cases for the person passing, there was a book from a very high ranking MD in a hospital that asked before every case he had... Had thousands of questions. Nothing is 100% I guess, but Returning Spirit as passing away and Wondering Spirit as falling in coma seems to have happened very often.
Does it need for the hexagrams to be in the same palace - I do not know, I assume not, as that would cut the cases by 8 and will be much more difficult to notice.

So is the second divination a sure death...  In my view that is way too strong of a divination no matter the hexagram. More fair approach would be just to mention in the spring his line will be much, much weaker and restricted...

What do we have in the first case, however... At Yin month Shen woud be clashed away... Here it comes up to what line we view as the one interacting in such case. I view that Wei interacts at line 5, but carries the intention and images of Shen. In this case Shen would be clashed by Yin and Wei while suppose to support him, but will actually weaken him, as Wei instead.

His line is strong in the day and weak in the month...
So far nothing here suggests death, his line is weak and may be somewhat weaker in Yin month, but nothing that severe.
Line 1 is moving... Also transforms to Earth. Also weakening him and more clearly this time.

If we take the idea he viewed the line interactions as different and view that Shen was active instead of Wei(his view can change the outcome, as many of us I would guess have noticed by now), then Shen being clashed by Yin, Yin weakening his line slightly, Wei weakening him and Chen weakening him does look worse.
There is more here, there are images of death, but I don't think that has been in the open, so can't go more into it.

Is Li showing blood... This goes into our view to health, blood does seem to carry similar images, it grasps attention when one sees it, its of course red in most cases, it can't sustain for long, very fast starts tranforms to other elements(earth)... So from outsider point of view it seems to be fire.
But then for its functions in the body, it can carry many other images, depending what angle one wants to view it from.

What was the actual problem... I'm not sure the system will show it with TCM terminology if the person divining and reading it doesn't know that... He is water line at third position and being weakened by earth... The idea water can show immunity is something I kinda agree with, event though , yea, no immunity in this way in old text it seems...

So from everyday point of view, he is pulled back in(water), the environment is rushing him showing very strong processes in him(white tiger)... Then meeting with different inert structures around him that just exhaust him. So like someone trying to bring a change, to accomplish something in environment that can not be changed... So he is exhausted more and more. Then in Yin month that is taken away by very strong new developments that make what he is fighting for out of place(yin clashing shen, also wood weakening him while he is still in white tiger line).
In that case from a purely human point of view, someones aims may become empty and that will affect his health , as it comes with the idea what he wants can not be accomplished, first because the environment is weakening the attempt, second because new developments make it out of place, as well in the strping.

Is this a clear divination for someone dying... In my view, no. Nothing here clearly shows it, there are some images of weakness together with images of death around, but they both are somewhat often to see... So if I had something like that would never say the person will pass away, there is no info to think that clearly. But there is enough to say he may be in much weaken condition in the coming spring and Yin month.


Without knowing more, may be wiser to not count too much on these examples, though, we don't know what happened, we don't know how much precision there was in recording all that, we don't even know how the 2 would read their own hexagrams and that may be important as well... So its curious, but taking it too seriously may be more a hindrance then help in learning all this, imo.

1.4 > 9 at Chen month and Wu Shen day.

予曰。此卦辰土。未土戌土。三重父母爻。當擇其旺者而用之。今辰土父母臨月建。
卽用辰土爲用神。目下病重者。乃因申日。沖寅木而暗動。木動以剋辰土。
I said: ?This gu??s Ch?n earth, W?i earth, Xū earth are three Father-Mother lines. Should
select the prosperous one as Useful [God]. Now, Ch?n earth Father-Mother is at Month
Builder, so take Ch?n earth as Useful God. At present, illness is serious, because Shēn
day clashes Y?n(t) wood [for the latter] to be Secretly Moving. Wood moving to counter
Ch?n earth [causing illness].?
彼問曰。卦中午火發動。寅木雖則暗動。反生午火而生土。卜書云。忌神與元神同
動。得兩生也。今止曰寅木剋辰土。不曰午火生辰土。何也
He asked: ?Gu??s Wŭ(h) fire is moving. Y?n(t) wood although Secretly Moving, contrarily
produces Wŭ(h) fire which produces earth. Divination books say: When Fearful God and
Source God together moving, will both be producing. So far, you said Y?n(t) wood
counters Ch?n earth but did not say Wŭ(h) fire produce Ch?n earth. Why??
予曰。午火雖動。化出未土。午與未合。午火貪合。不生辰土。所以此辰土。單受寅
木之剋。不得午火之生。故此病體沈重。
I said: ?Wŭ(h) fire although moving, it changes into W?i earth. Wŭ(h) and W?i combine.
Wŭ(h) fire desire to combine, not produce Ch?n earth. Therefore, this Ch?n earth, alone
by Y?n(t) wood countered. It cannot obtain Wŭ(h) fire?s producing. Thus, the disease is
serious.?
Zēngshān Bǔy? Chapter 9. Useful God, Source God, Fearful God, Hateful God
80
須待丑日。沖去未土。而午火無合可貪。午火生土。其災退矣。
?Must wait for Chŏu day to clash out W?i earth. Then Wŭ(h) fire has not the desire to
combine. Wŭ(h) fire produces earth. The calamity will be relieved!?

Thank you, I think its nice there are translations accessible in the open so people can figure out what are we talking about this whole time ...

Will continue the initiative of trying to provide some different view to it, that is more logical now... Based on what people have figured out as rules of how the system is operating, since then that I'm familiar with. That isn't lack of respect, for the original text, I view it as the opposite, but its focus on developing further, as he did a great work in getting the system available to people, makes sense to continue that instead of clinging to what was known by then... So respecting what he was trying to do, instead of respecting the very literal and specific techniques that were used back then, that were not very developed at the time. As I'm sure if he had access to better techniques he wouldn't hesitate to use them, as developing the system is where the key is for all of us, I hope.


In this specific case above, in my humble view he got the Useful God wrong. The timing very right, but not for the stated reasons.

Self line is broken by the month. Its supported by the Officer line, so it can show someone that is sick, but seems able to overcome it and survive.
Other line is incredible strong, only weaken by the hidden moving Yin line, that is incredible weak, its weak in the month, its broken by the day, so this isn't "hiddenly moving line" that can empower anything, this is a broken line, it doesn't do much in this state. Yet even if we think Yin is very strong for some reason, it will weaken both parent lines, so again Self line would be in much, much worse state.

As it doesn't make sense the son is in worse situation then his father for this question, the Self can not be the son or the diviner, it had to be the father.
That we can also assume from the fact the system doesn't show any important info between the 2 lines, to give him separate line as well.

In my humble view he got the rest of the reading wrong as well. The day of recovery , is not because when Wei is clashed the line can turn back to Wu and start supporting him, but its because the Wu and Wei lines show inner severity that is empowering him, but that is what leads to the sickness. more on that below. Chou clashes Wei away, bringing the water that is less restricted and more care free, and the father is getting better.

Timelines becomes:
Wu<>Wei<>Xu - he is worse here, peak of severity
Hai <> Zi - he is starting to feel less restricted, more open and start to return  yet as the water is still restricted by by Wei and the fire and earth lines are still turning to each other, so still not fully visible.
Chou clashes Wei away, a lot of Earth supporting him, yet that support only makes the inner severity more strong, and him sicker. That is there the whole time, but now also the line showing his freedom as Water is finally fully accessible from the base of the whole hexagram/situation at line 1.


Can we say more then... Why is he unwell... Well it would have to be a guess here, as we don't know the situation or what is playing a role in it etc. But one possible explanation(there are countless more) with Chen being in line 3 suggests plans at home. With Chen hiding joy and freedom, restricted by the environment of the branch itself, we can guess the father at home was seeking in some way to be more independent or that for a member of his family, yet his inner values as Officer/Fire didn't allow him to reach that. He is potentially clashing the line of this plans, the plans with the Water within seemed to be pointing to that. So some plans for the family, possibly, that the father was against as he wanted too be more strict and to diminish the freedom of the water that was needed at the time. And with the moving fire line that idea of severity is empowered by that, although not fully, and happen without him able to join, as Wu and Wei already combine with each other so out of reach. The Officer line as that severity is also the problem then, it empowers him, but in that create illness, coming from being too severe so is the key to his illness. As they open up to the family with Chou and the severity of the fire deminish then is clashed away by Chou making all even colder(free and open instead severe), that problem washes away as well.

I agree, that is my problem as well. Mostly because at any given time the person practicing will never know how much of what he is using would have been negated later in the system if the teacher knew enough.
Only thing we know is the practitioner will have holes in their method all through the time they are using the system, suggesting at any point on important question the system may fail them...

So its creating a construct that by definition is unstable when done this way. It seems to have resulted in a lot of people thinking WWG is unreliable... Yet that isn't because that is inherit in the system, its because the people that wrote about it(some of them , anyway) wrote in a way where a false methods were given, then much later on parts of them negated... And that continue each step of the way.

How much he never had enough experience to negate and was left in there as a potential trap for the practitioner... All that someday will backfire usually in a small way, leading to people losing faith in the system, but in some cases may actually be in big enough way...

That is one of the  main reasons I really dislike Wild Cranes material. Practicing by this, one takes a compromise, they will adopt not fully working rules, hoping sometime in the future they will "repair" them... If that happens, great, but when there are a lot of those piled on top of each other, at some point its debatable how easy it would be to fix the system, even if fully working system is given. Then they have layers and layers of techniques with holes in them, as that was how they were presented originally...

So better ignore the material, learning by it is just a way of adopting weakness in the approach then piling more on top of that until they become impossible to find later on... And al that could be a real problem later on...

Divining about guarding against anxieties. If obtain Son-Daughter holding Subject, need
not worry. [If] Officer-Ghost holds Subject, doubts are difficult to resolve.

Basically if the Self line is Offspring/Child - nothing much going on, so one doesn't need to worry. If its Officer, then one is clearly worried.

Is this true... In my humble view, its not. If one Self line is Offspring/Child and Officer is clashing him from the Month, the idea there is no need to worry is not very suited to the actual situation.

As far as I'm aware the Self line is our current state in time of asking, the fact one is not worried when asking, doesn't mean he won't be as soon as the situation progresses.

Here we can say that if that change is suppose to happen the Self line should move and change to Officer or something... But if we have very weak Offspring/Child line being clashed with extremly strong Officer or even Parent line, this would provide overall Image of problems/worries etc. even if the Self doesn't change its relation to the situation.

Very interesting book from them here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0GL23CXYR

In my humble view for the first time I see a book that a beginner can actually start practicing right away with. Not saying there won't be a long road ahead, but at least the foundation needed to start casting is provided.

About amazon... I like amazon, but I don't usually buy stuff that is only provided as online access. Servers close, no matter how big they seem, so that is too temporal to enjoy. Yet WWG is WWG, for that one I'm happy to make an exception and this specific book was very interesting to see.

I'm not sure I mentioned that before, but have added their notation for branches and stems to the calculator(Settings > I Ching Stream). Its very similar to Alex Chius one.

They have preview in academie.edu by the way, all the books I think, we can read the first part, there is info about the whole initiative, seems good.
Wise idea to publish it in there, in my view too. Here is link:
https://columbia.academia.edu/XuanWanyan

They are in reddit as well, if someone is curious about something can ask.

I got one of the books in kindle... This one:
Undersea Eye – The Core Principles of I Ching (Six Lines) Divination (Haidi Yan 海底眼): A Must-Read Classical Text on Six Lines Divination, Wen Wang Gua, ... Series of the Classical Texts Book 6)

Good parts:
I like it so far, I'm on 1/3 of it, the Images are awesome, keeping in mind at that time stuff was different(for example vechicle may be less related to metal and more to wood etc.) , but with that I really liked that part.
There were some sentences at the start I enjoyed as well.

Can see that idea of the hidden hexagram used the whole time as well, that I love, more on that in the reddit group, there is whole topic.

Less good parts:
There are some practical advices I don't think will work very well in practice, like if Parent line moves what it means etc.
The Diagrams are not very easy to see in Kindle. That seems to be common problem in there. We can get what they show based on the context, usually, so not the end of the world.

Overall, great initiative and they are doing very good work, in my view. Will add their stuff to the calculators in the coming days, not entirely sure how and what , but at least the stems/branches is the plan to be there.

If someone has questions, can ask in the reddit groups I think.

"Significator" for Yòngshén?  That's the first time I heard this term.  Sounds an interesting term, although longer to say that the original Chinese word.

I am writing an English course on Liu Yao, and this is one of the few terms that I don't translate, so it's just Yongshen  in the course manual.

That is always a great idea, in my humble view. Pinyin + the character and no one has to wonder what that is, some great books out there have been made unreadable because of translating terms in a silly way I think.

Great to hear about a course, more good Liu Yao materials out there is always a good idea, in my humble view.