Hi all,

FYI. My translation of the case study using the 1691AD version of Zengshan Buyi (ZSBY) (see ZSBY-3 pdf in https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1985.0):

[Ex.10-13a. H/F to F/M]
又如丑月戊子日。自占病。得天火同人變旅卦。
Another example: Chou month, Wu Zi day. Person divining about own illness. Obtained Heaven-Fire Fellowship [H/F], transforming to Traveling gua [F/M].

子 戌 丶應   丶
財 申金 ○   丶丶
兄午 丶   丶
鬼 亥水 丶世   丶
子 丑 丶丶   丶丶
父 卯木 ○   子 辰土 丶丶

Heaven-Fire Fellowship [H/F] Fire-Mountain Traveling [F/M]
Son-Daughter Xu earth 丶 Object Brother-Sister Si fire 丶
Wife-Wealth Shen metal ○ Son-Daughter Wei earth 丶丶
Brother-Sister Wu(h) fire 丶 Wife-Wealth You metal 丶
Officer-Ghost Hai water 丶 Subject Wife-Wealth Shen metal 丶
Son-Daughter Chou earth 丶丶 Brother-Sister Wu(h) fire 丶丶
Father-Mother Mao wood ○ Son-Daughter Chen earth 丶丶

自占病。世爲用神。世爻亥水。子日拱之。又得申金元神。動而相生。乃不死之症。
Person divining about own illness. Subject is Useful God. Subject line is Hai water. Zi day clasps it. Also obtained Shen metal Source God moving and producing. So, not die from illness.

疑其申金墓于丑月。恐不能生。
[But have] some doubt, given that Shen metal Tomb(p) is in Chou month. Afraid that [the Source God] cannot produce.

[Ex.10-13b. F/F to F/H]
請伊母再占一卦。得離卦變火天大有
Invited his mother to again divine a gua. Obtained Li gua [F/F], transforming to Fire-Heaven Great Reward [F/H].

兄 巳 丶世
子 未 丶丶
財 酉 丶
鬼 亥 丶應
子 丑土 ㄨ   父 寅木
父 卯 丶

Li as Fire [F/F] Fire-Heaven Great Reward [F/H]
Brother-Sister Si fire 丶 Subject Brother-Sister Si fire 丶
Son-Daughter Wei earth 丶丶 Son-Daughter   Wei earth 丶丶
Wife-Wealth You metal 丶 Wife-Wealth   You metal 丶
Officer-Ghost Hai water 丶 Object Son-Daughter Chen earth 丶
Son-Daughter Chou earth ㄨ Father-Mother Yin(t) wood 丶
Father-Mother Mao wood 丶 Officer-Ghost Zi water 丶

母占子。子孫爲用神。丑土子孫雖逢月建。不宜動化寅木。囘頭之剋。目下雖則無妨。交春木旺土衰。必死。
Mother divining about son. Son-Daughter is Useful God. Chou earth Son-Daughter although meeting Month Builder, is not suitable [as it is] moving and changing into Yin(t) wood to turn back to counter. At present although without hindrance, in springtime, wood Prosperous(s), earth Declining(s). Certain to die.

又合前卦。亥水世爻。得申金元神相生。寅月冲去申金則危矣。
Also accords with prior gua Hai water Subject line, obtaining Shen metal Source God producing. [But when] Yin(t) month clashes out Shen metal, then dangerous!

果卒于交春之日。
Result: He died on a spring day.

Hi all,

FYI. My translation of the case study using the 1691AD version of Zengshan Buyi (ZSBY) (see ZSBY-3 pdf in https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1985.0):

[Ex.11-14. E/T to T/T]
卽如卯月己卯日弟占兄。已得重罪。母叩問能救否。
Example: Mao month, Ji Mao day. Younger brother divining about elder brother [who] already committed a serious crime. Mother kowtowed, asked whether he can be saved.

子 酉 丶丶
財 亥 丶丶
兄 丑土 ㄨ應   父母 午火
兄 辰 丶丶
鬼 寅 丶丶
財 子 丶世

Earth-Thunder Returning [E/T] Zhen as Thunder [T/T]
Son-Daughter You metal 丶丶 Brother-Sister Xu earth 丶丶
Wife-Wealth Hai water 丶丶 Son-Daughter Shen metal 丶丶
Brother-Sister Chou earth ㄨ Object Father-Mother Wu(h) fire 丶
Brother-Sister Chen earth 丶丶 Brother-Sister Chen earth 丶丶
Officer-Ghost Yin(t) wood 丶丶 Officer-Ghost Yin(t) wood 丶丶
Wife-Wealth Zi water   丶 Subject Wife-Wealth Zi water 丶

兄弟爻爲用神。丑土兄動。日月剋之。明現大罪難脫。幸得兄爻丑土。化午火父母。囘頭相生。
Brother-Sister Line is Useful God. Chou earth Brother moving [but] day and month counters it. Obviously, a serious crime, difficult to escape. Fortunately, Brother line Chou earth changes to Wu(h) fire Father-Mother, turning back to produce.

斷曰。速速行之。父母生兄。神告顯然。
Interpretation: Quickly resolved. Father-Mother producing Brother. [What the] spirits inform is obvious.

後果蒙免死。
Later result: Spared from death.

Hi all,

FYI. My translation of the case study using the 1691AD version of Zengshan Buyi (ZSBY) (see ZSBY-3 pdf in https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1985.0):

[Ex.10-11. L/L to T/W]
卽如酉月辛亥日。占謁貴求財。得兌爲澤。變雷水解卦。
Example: You month, Xin Hai day. Divining about visiting a noble to ask for money. Obtained Dui as Lake [L/L], transforming to Thunder-Water Relief gua [T/W].

父母 未土丶丶世
兄弟 酉金 ○   兄弟 申金
子孫 亥水 丶
父母 丑土 丶丶應
妻財 卯木 丶
官鬼 巳火 ○   妻財 寅木

Dui as Lake [L/L] Thunder-Water Relief [T/W]
Father-Mother Wei earth 丶丶 Subject Father-Mother Xu earth 丶丶
Brother-Sister You metal ○ Brother-Sister Shen metal 丶丶
Son-Daughter Hai water 丶 Officer-Ghost Wu(h) fire 丶
Father-Mother Chou earth 丶丶 Object Officer-Ghost Wu(h) fire 丶丶
Wife-Wealth Mao wood 丶 Father-Mother Chen earth 丶
Officer-Ghost Si fire ○ Wife-Wealth   Yin(t) wood 丶丶

斷曰。甲寅日得見。財亦如心。
Interpretation: Jia Yin(t) day of interview. Money will [be received] as desired.

彼曰。卯木財爻。空而且破。又被金剋。初爻巳火官雖生世。亥日沖散。又化旬空。何以爲吉。
Person said: Mao wood Wealth line in void and moreover is broken. Also by metal countered. 1st line?s Si fire Officer although producing Subject, Hai day clashes to disperse it. Also changing into Days-Void. How can it be auspicious?

予曰。神兆機於動。予從來不言散。正因巳火化空。所以目下不見。待甲寅日出空而相見矣。寅木之財。以生官。官來生世。
I said: Spirit omen intention is in the moving. I did not say dispersing truly because Si fire changes to void. Therefore, at present, no interview. Wait until Jia Yin(t) day, out-of-void, then [have the] interview! Yin(t) wood Wealth produces Officer. Officer incoming produces Subject.

果於寅日早見。木日得財。
Result: On Yin(t) day morning, had the interview. A wood day, he obtained the money.

@smsek why he died in fire and ap fire lp!
 Can bazi lie?

Good life in metal lp than due in wei lp?

Because wei xu chen ungrateful lunishment but wei mao=strong wood,than very good!

Fire combination from ap plus daymaster?
Wu xu?

Than this daymaster is stro g that DON Tneed wood wei has alot of wood or timb and fire?AND THIS GENG XU DAYMASTER NEED WATER,METAL and output?

1.4 > 9 at Chen month and Wu Shen day.

予曰。此卦辰土。未土戌土。三重父母爻。當擇其旺者而用之。今辰土父母臨月建。
卽用辰土爲用神。目下病重者。乃因申日。沖寅木而暗動。木動以剋辰土。
I said: ?This gu??s Ch?n earth, W?i earth, Xū earth are three Father-Mother lines. Should
select the prosperous one as Useful [God]. Now, Ch?n earth Father-Mother is at Month
Builder, so take Ch?n earth as Useful God. At present, illness is serious, because Shēn
day clashes Y?n(t) wood [for the latter] to be Secretly Moving. Wood moving to counter
Ch?n earth [causing illness].?
彼問曰。卦中午火發動。寅木雖則暗動。反生午火而生土。卜書云。忌神與元神同
動。得兩生也。今止曰寅木剋辰土。不曰午火生辰土。何也
He asked: ?Gu??s Wŭ(h) fire is moving. Y?n(t) wood although Secretly Moving, contrarily
produces Wŭ(h) fire which produces earth. Divination books say: When Fearful God and
Source God together moving, will both be producing. So far, you said Y?n(t) wood
counters Ch?n earth but did not say Wŭ(h) fire produce Ch?n earth. Why??
予曰。午火雖動。化出未土。午與未合。午火貪合。不生辰土。所以此辰土。單受寅
木之剋。不得午火之生。故此病體沈重。
I said: ?Wŭ(h) fire although moving, it changes into W?i earth. Wŭ(h) and W?i combine.
Wŭ(h) fire desire to combine, not produce Ch?n earth. Therefore, this Ch?n earth, alone
by Y?n(t) wood countered. It cannot obtain Wŭ(h) fire?s producing. Thus, the disease is
serious.?
Zēngshān Bǔy? Chapter 9. Useful God, Source God, Fearful God, Hateful God
80
須待丑日。沖去未土。而午火無合可貪。午火生土。其災退矣。
?Must wait for Chŏu day to clash out W?i earth. Then Wŭ(h) fire has not the desire to
combine. Wŭ(h) fire produces earth. The calamity will be relieved!?

Thank you, I think its nice there are translations accessible in the open so people can figure out what are we talking about this whole time ...

Will continue the initiative of trying to provide some different view to it, that is more logical now... Based on what people have figured out as rules of how the system is operating, since then that I'm familiar with. That isn't lack of respect, for the original text, I view it as the opposite, but its focus on developing further, as he did a great work in getting the system available to people, makes sense to continue that instead of clinging to what was known by then... So respecting what he was trying to do, instead of respecting the very literal and specific techniques that were used back then, that were not very developed at the time. As I'm sure if he had access to better techniques he wouldn't hesitate to use them, as developing the system is where the key is for all of us, I hope.


In this specific case above, in my humble view he got the Useful God wrong. The timing very right, but not for the stated reasons.

Self line is broken by the month. Its supported by the Officer line, so it can show someone that is sick, but seems able to overcome it and survive.
Other line is incredible strong, only weaken by the hidden moving Yin line, that is incredible weak, its weak in the month, its broken by the day, so this isn't "hiddenly moving line" that can empower anything, this is a broken line, it doesn't do much in this state. Yet even if we think Yin is very strong for some reason, it will weaken both parent lines, so again Self line would be in much, much worse state.

As it doesn't make sense the son is in worse situation then his father for this question, the Self can not be the son or the diviner, it had to be the father.
That we can also assume from the fact the system doesn't show any important info between the 2 lines, to give him separate line as well.

In my humble view he got the rest of the reading wrong as well. The day of recovery , is not because when Wei is clashed the line can turn back to Wu and start supporting him, but its because the Wu and Wei lines show inner severity that is empowering him, but that is what leads to the sickness. more on that below. Chou clashes Wei away, bringing the water that is less restricted and more care free, and the father is getting better.

Timelines becomes:
Wu<>Wei<>Xu - he is worse here, peak of severity
Hai <> Zi - he is starting to feel less restricted, more open and start to return  yet as the water is still restricted by by Wei and the fire and earth lines are still turning to each other, so still not fully visible.
Chou clashes Wei away, a lot of Earth supporting him, yet that support only makes the inner severity more strong, and him sicker. That is there the whole time, but now also the line showing his freedom as Water is finally fully accessible from the base of the whole hexagram/situation at line 1.


Can we say more then... Why is he unwell... Well it would have to be a guess here, as we don't know the situation or what is playing a role in it etc. But one possible explanation(there are countless more) with Chen being in line 3 suggests plans at home. With Chen hiding joy and freedom, restricted by the environment of the branch itself, we can guess the father at home was seeking in some way to be more independent or that for a member of his family, yet his inner values as Officer/Fire didn't allow him to reach that. He is potentially clashing the line of this plans, the plans with the Water within seemed to be pointing to that. So some plans for the family, possibly, that the father was against as he wanted too be more strict and to diminish the freedom of the water that was needed at the time. And with the moving fire line that idea of severity is empowered by that, although not fully, and happen without him able to join, as Wu and Wei already combine with each other so out of reach. The Officer line as that severity is also the problem then, it empowers him, but in that create illness, coming from being too severe so is the key to his illness. As they open up to the family with Chou and the severity of the fire deminish then is clashed away by Chou making all even colder(free and open instead severe), that problem washes away as well.