Discussion on my own chart

[darmario]

Hello, I would like to ask from others opinion on my own analysis on my own chart. I was born in Medan, Indonesia 12 September 2000. The hour is not known but my father said it was around midnight and it's definitely 12 September. Which I think is correct because 11 Sept is Ren Day Master and it's extrovert while I'm absolutely not. While 12 Sept is Gui Water DM which is introvert which I think is correct.

The problem is the Hour pillar. I'm guessing around 00:00-02:00 which result in Ren Zi pillar or Gui Chou pillar. After reading JY books until book 5 Ren Zi is Rob Wealth with characteristics of extrovert, good networker. But I'm introvert outside and inside, I can do public speaking but that's it. I don't have many friends in school and nowadays because I don't see the point. So I'm guessing this is not my true chart.
While looking at Gui Chou Pillar I have Qi Sha with Earth as unfavorable element makes the Qi Sha negative personality appear, which I'm guessing is correct because I'm impulsive person, but I don't like to be in high andrenaline place which Qi Sha person should have. That's why I confuse about my own chart now and hoping this forum can help. But here's my analysis

As you can see my chart have too much of Metal in Metal season, Geng-Yi also combine to become Metal and Chen-You also combine to become more Metal. If it's Gui Chou pillar that the triangular combination will also create another Metal. And I also work in Metal industry as drafter in contractor company specializing in palm oil industry LMAO!

Also my chart have no wealth element, which is fine because I decided to become a Buddhist monk but it's only after both of parents passed away because as their son I want to take care of them until their last breath. Taking care of parents is one of the most blessing describe by the Buddha. And neglecting them will only result on bad kamma and bad rebirth for me. But the problem will come if my parents grow old until 90 which is of course fortunate but taking care for my parents of course needed money. I'm fine with doing anything but after studying Bazi I can change my career industry to have better income.

From reading Yuang Hai Zi Ping having abundance Metal, Fire is great to have. Which I don't have, so I'm taking Wood as my Yong Shen. Which is why I currently pursuing in Art industy which I really have interested to. I should take architecture as my degree but I took Civil Engineering for the money. But I'm not happy doing it, I want to do creative work. And I also want to teach. That's why if my analysis is correct, I will pursue Wood industry but I do want to have others opinion.

But reading Di Tian Sui Chapter 8 on Earthly Branches, one of the example have many Water and have weak Wood like me. And Di Tian Sui said weak wood can't handle too much Water, it's better to go with the flow of Qi. Which is Water is now my Yong Shen? Here is where I got confused.

Here's some of my facts to better determine the correct Bazi:
- Me and my parents don't get along with our grandfather, he's rock head person who only think he's correct, even our grandmother get shouted by him
- My family is not that wealthy, I was once asking my parents to buy me a console and they did bought one but after knowing they got indo debt for that, I never asking them anything ever again. Now I work and I can buy things myself
- I really close with my sister and my parents. But not with my uncle and aunty

Thankyou for reading and I hope we can discuss about this case!

[darmario]

The reason why I take Wood as my Yongshen? Metal is too much and Water also get too strong because of this, Having Wood can help to reduce the Qi from Metal and Water. Earth will be unfavorable because it gives birth to already too much Metal.
I'm in Fire phase right now does that mean I got the luck now? I don't think so, I think having Fire only created problem because it robs the Qi from my Wood, and my luck pillar only gets better when there is Wood. Which is around 48+ years of age?

[aeonrel]

Hi @darmario ,

My analysis:

The problem is the Hour pillar. I'm guessing around 00:00-02:00 which result in Ren Zi pillar or Gui Chou pillar. After reading JY books until book 5 Ren Zi is Rob Wealth with characteristics of extrovert, good networker. But I'm introvert outside and inside, I can do public speaking but that's it. I don't have many friends in school and nowadays because I don't see the point. So I'm guessing this is not my true chart.
While looking at Gui Chou Pillar I have Qi Sha with Earth as unfavorable element makes the Qi Sha negative personality appear, which I'm guessing is correct because I'm impulsive person, but I don't like to be in high andrenaline place which Qi Sha person should have. That's why I confuse about my own chart now and hoping this forum can help. But here's my analysis

Actually there are many ways to translate the chart interactions into introversion and extroversion.
For example, even without considering for the hour pillar, a person having too many support/resource elements tend to be over-thinkers.
This will be exacerbated if the support/resource combines with friends or output elements.
In your case, Yi-Geng combines, and Yi, your only output/expression is lost - could be one way to explain introvert-like behaviors.
In traditional Bazi, You-You has a self-punishment that leads to depressive thoughts due to over-thinking - also can contribute to introversion.

So coming to your hour pillar, I would say it is likely Gui Chou.
Because, like you mentioned, Ren Zi should give you a robust pump of extroversion and reduces the amount of introversion greatly, but since you are 100% sure you are an introvert, then Gui Chou will support that notion.
Gui Chou will also supports the forming of the Symbolic Star Hua Gai / Star of Arts.
This star means you are a soulful type of person, spiritual, artistic, likes to self-study and this leads to introverted behaviors.

Also my chart have no wealth element, which is fine because I decided to become a Buddhist monk but it's only after both of parents passed away because as their son I want to take care of them until their last breath. Taking care of parents is one of the most blessing describe by the Buddha. And neglecting them will only result on bad kamma and bad rebirth for me. But the problem will come if my parents grow old until 90 which is of course fortunate but taking care for my parents of course needed money. I'm fine with doing anything but after studying Bazi I can change my career industry to have better income.

The Star of Arts is spot-on here by the fact you are pursuing Buddhism and also looking at Bazi for answers (spirituality and the divine).

From reading Yuang Hai Zi Ping having abundance Metal, Fire is great to have. Which I don't have, so I'm taking Wood as my Yong Shen. Which is why I currently pursuing in Art industy which I really have interested to. I should take architecture as my degree but I took Civil Engineering for the money. But I'm not happy doing it, I want to do creative work. And I also want to teach. That's why if my analysis is correct, I will pursue Wood industry but I do want to have others opinion.

Your interest in creative work is yet another sign of the Star of Arts.
So I am 100% sure it is Gui Chou for the hour.

As for your Yongshen, this one is difficult.
You are obviously having too much supporting elements, so water and metal are out.
You can say earth grows metal, so earth is dangerous to have more.
So the only way to drain the metal is through fire or wood, like you said.
But here's the problem: In the stems, your Geng is already taken by Yi in a combination.
It is unavailable to be harmed when Bing fire appears.
In the Branches, your You are protected by the earths and through the combination with Chen, and hence are difficult to harm and drain except when Mao arrives.
But your Mao LP will come quite late in life and it brings along a metal Xin in the stem, which brings you back to square one.

So, my suggestion is still go with Wood as Yongshen, BUT you have to generate Wood luck by yourself instead of waiting for the right time to come.
Here I am not choosing Wood because of the element, but because of the Ten God personality it represents for your case: output/expression.
As a person who overthinks, you need to correct it with instinctive / snap actions, go with the flow mindset, execute the first thing on your mind....these types of behaviors.
It will feel very unnatural, uncomfortable, because it is not really in you to do these things.
But remember, the destiny that you can read from Bazi only constitutes 1/3 chance of an outcome.
1/3 is environmental luck, 1/3 is personal actions.
You can force yourself to do things that is against your nature in order to change your luck.
Since your metal is nearly untouchable, you can't wait for destiny to change in your favor, but create your own wood luck instead.

[darmario]

Thank you for your insight! I never knew that symbolic stars could help determine a person's personality. I need to learn more about that.

I also agree that luck is influenced by the person. People who have a bad LP but improve it later have likely learned from their mistakes and made changes to achieve the results they wanted. Those with a good LP have likely made the right choices from the beginning. I absolutely agree that waiting for good LP years is not the solution; individuals need to create their own luck.

But I do have some questions for you:

In your case, Yi-Geng combines, and Yi, your only output/expression is lost - could be one way to explain introvert-like behaviors.

- Does this mean the Yi element disappears completely, or does it simply weaken due to combination? What about the Hidden Yi Wood in Chen, can it help strengthen my Yi because it's rooted?

In the Branches, your You are protected by the earths and through the combination with Chen, and hence are difficult to harm and drain except when Mao arrives.

-  I still don't quite understand the flow of Qi. With this much Metal and in the Autumn season, doesn't Earth become weakened due to the amount of Qi going into it? There's also no Fire to support Earth, so I assume Earth here is too weak to produce more Metal. However, I'm currently in a Fire Life Path, which could be problematic. Is my analysis correct?

- Based on my personality, which is introverted and somewhat lazy due to having too many resources, do you think working independently (as a freelancer) would be better than working as a salaried employee? I often feel dissatisfied and end up doing minimal work at my current job, partly because my boss has a difficult personality, and all the other employees don't like him at all.

- How much does the Yearly LP help in countering the effects of the 10-year LP? I will encounter Jia Chen and Yi Si in the years 2024 and 2025. Right now, I really want to pursue a career in the Art Industry. However, I'm concerned about the following years with Fire, Earth, and Metal phases, which I'm currently grappling with.

- If a person have weak element, does working in related element actually strengthen their element? How much work needs to be done to make an element really strong? And is it also countering the unfavorable element?

Thankyou again for your insight!

[Gmuli]

Hi

don't have many friends in school and nowadays because I don't see the point.

Lets try to see it in layers as dynamic.

First layer. That would be DM and hour by itself interaction.

For Gui/Chou
7K in the hour suggests tension when nearby people/in front of people.
Zi hour would be more focused on Rob Wealth as group feeling, there is some tension there, but far, far away from what 7K does. Also its kinda thecommon group dynamic.

The difference between walking on the street with someone walking next to you. Few steps and tension will build so someone will wait the other usually, at least in here. That would be Rob Wealth tension.
7K tension is weaponized military walking next to you.
Very different kind of tension and most people will either stop waiting them to pass or just move away, at least in most placse I know(countries etc).

If you feel first one most of your life when near people then Zi. If the second then Chou,at this step.

On next step DM is rooted in Zi. So now not only there is less tension there, but also one may feel like this is where they belong. in front of people etc. So very social creature there, or so it looks so far.
Gui also roots in Chou, but in very different way as Earth controls water and all.
So far we have the idea that Chou Hour would show more tension when in front of people,much more. While Zi hour would suggest the feeling one belongs there, much more strongly.

Here comes Second Layer. As we have Chen. And Chou falls in Chen in the styles of reading I like.
Also all the water in the chart.
So now we have a structure/rules/authorities in the outside world that control all that processes.
Meaning it becomes difficult to know what happens because one is dedicated to something in Chen, and what happens because there is tension there or restriction there.

That Chen can represent teaching or religion one is dedicated it or moral values etc. And that influences what happen in Layer One, so we can't be sure of the hour just by how one feels or acts near people alone.

In my humble view one way to decide and/or figure that out is to try to sense the whole movement. First layer above should be there in any case, then all falls in Chen, as strength in doing what seems right and parts of what is felt initially may be disgarded. But may be needed to figure it all out.
Before it falls there one can figure out what actually happen. If you are stressed when in front of people, not because of any beliefs or rules, but without a clear reason then Chou or if you feel there is where you belong, but from other obligation(Chen) can't focus on it then Zi.

[aeonrel]

@darmario ,

Does this mean the Yi element disappears completely, or does it simply weaken due to combination? What about the Hidden Yi Wood in Chen, can it help strengthen my Yi because it's rooted?

It is actually still present in full power, just got bonded by the Geng...like a person going to prison.
That person may be in robust health, but cannot affect anything outside of the prison.
So for simplistic argument, it is read as "gone".

The school of Bazi I use does not account for Hidden Stems, so I am not the best person to advise on Yi hidden in Chen.
But what little I know from traditional school is that the strength of hidden stems are small compared to those in the core 8 characters.
It can help strengthen your lone Yi, yes, but the help is so minor that it is negligible.
Especially in your case where your wood energy pales in comparison to everything else right from the beginning.
Anyway, Chen-You forms a combination, so your Chen is gone as well, so to speak.

I still don't quite understand the flow of Qi. With this much Metal and in the Autumn season, doesn't Earth become weakened due to the amount of Qi going into it? There's also no Fire to support Earth, so I assume Earth here is too weak to produce more Metal. However, I'm currently in a Fire Life Path, which could be problematic. Is my analysis correct?

Uh...ok, so disclaimer, my Bazi school is a purist 5 elements analysis style.
It doesn't look at things like Day Master's strength, nor born-in seasons, no tombs, no transformations, no hidden stems, no structures, no punishments, no half combinations or 3-combinations, and many others.
It straight-up analyzes 5 elements interaction outcome for a given time snapshot, then use Ten Gods to map it to one's life.
So, in the end, it comes down to just mathematics calculations:

• Looking at natal chart branches alone, Chen-You forms a combination, Chen is gone.
• Remaining Chou grows You metal. No clash, but earth is partially drained from growing You.
• So natal chart alone, yes, Earth is weakened.

In this Ding Hai LP, Hai will just be fed by You in the branches.
The problem is in the stems, where Ding will just be bashed up by your Gui, after Yi-Geng is locked away.
Using Ten Gods, Ding is wealth, Gui is friend, it suggests that you are spending precious time/effort/money on friends, or they are taking advantage of you during this period.

Done. That is how the Five Element school does a reading for this LP alone.

If you want to go the route of studying seasonal effects, elemental strengths, Fire Life Path, those things that are more traditional, gotta check with the other forumers.
No school is more correct than the others, just more efficient at some things and less at others.
You can choose whichever method you are comfortable with.

Based on my personality, which is introverted and somewhat lazy due to having too many resources, do you think working independently (as a freelancer) would be better than working as a salaried employee? I often feel dissatisfied and end up doing minimal work at my current job, partly because my boss has a difficult personality, and all the other employees don't like him at all.

I would not recommend as freelancing is closer to running your own business.
You will need strong wealth element's help to be successful in that.
Or minimally strong output elements.

Again, I will explain via Ten Gods: Wealth is one's drive to pursue things of value/benefits.
In this cut-throat world of business, successful businessmen needs to have that drive/greed.
A businessman full of Wealth elements, with injured/suppressed/damaged Resource elements, will be willing to do unscrupulous things to achieve his/her targets, because his/her moral code is compromised.
You are the opposite with strong Resource and no Wealth: you are unlikely / unwilling to take steps to achieve your personal goals where it inconveniences / brings discomfort / harms others, even in small ways.
Hence, not well-suited for the cut-throat world of business.
You can still pursue it, but chances are that your income through it might be unspectacular.
But if you are ok with that, sure.

Alternatively, you can succeed via showcase of talents (output elements), but since we established that your output luck is weak, then that path is challenging as well.
You can force it, but it will be taxing hard work.

Your Officer luck (earth) is the luck with employed work.
At least you have some earth energy left, so if you want a safe option, staying employed is the way to go.
But even that has a problem in next LP, where Wu earth combines with your Gui.
Gotta wait until Ji Chou LP for stronger career luck.

Maybe you can try pursuing as a side line to see how it goes.
I am just worried about the support element as a double-edged sword: you are "heaven-blessed" to receive more help than normal people, but it also causes you to overthink and have less drive to push it into a successful career.
Doing it as a main line will force you into taking it seriously, but the risk is also very high.

How much does the Yearly LP help in countering the effects of the 10-year LP? I will encounter Jia Chen and Yi Si in the years 2024 and 2025. Right now, I really want to pursue a career in the Art Industry. However, I'm concerned about the following years with Fire, Earth, and Metal phases, which I'm currently grappling with.

For my school, just add the Year LP into the equation and solve it.
Stem is one equation, branch is another.

2024
Stem: Yi-Geng combine, put aside. Jia stands alone. Gui continues to suppress/hurt Ding.
Branch: Double Chen-You combinations, throw them aside. Left Chou to suppress/hurt Hai.
Verdict: Still spending too much time/effort/money on peers. Pressure from boss at work causing you to retreat and be less sociable. But stronger output this year due to the Jia. I can't tell how the output will play out though…could be stronger pursuit of hobbies/interest or more vocal in general, or both.

2025
Stem: Yi-Geng combine, put aside. Gui grows Yi grows Ding - good.
Branch: Chen-You combine, throw aside. Si grows Chou grows You grows Hai - good.
Verdict: 2025 is a better year with healthier output and even healthier wealth luck. Sociability is also higher.

So maybe you would want to start the Art career in 2025 instead.

If a person have weak element, does working in related element actually strengthen their element? How much work needs to be done to make an element really strong? And is it also countering the unfavorable element?

Yes, it does strengthen and counters accordingly. BUT, don't look at the elements blindly as some sort of set-in-stone rules. Like if you increase water aspect, all fire aspects will be damaged. Use logical reasoning paired with Ten Gods reference and map it to your daily activities. Use them fluidly, as and when necessary, as a guide to life.

For example, a person's output element is very weak or none.
So maybe at work, the ability to show talent is poor.
So at work,  focus on churning out work or jumping into doing stuffs more than spending time thinking / planning.
Don't have to worry about Output clashing Officer (career) because Output is too weak in the first place.
In fact it feeds Wealth, which is your goals at work.

After work, maybe it is couple time with your spouse.
If male, wealth = relationship with female partner.
Since output is weak, dating game is poor.
Force oneself to be impromptu, ad hoc with dating ideas and actions (forced output).
It will show adventurism and spices up the relationship (Output growing Wealth).

Now you are back at home, you are tired.
Day Master is weak, drained from outputting and controlling wealth.
You can go have a drink with friends (strengthening through introducing self-element) to unwind and relax.
Or you can rest, have me-time, self-study, reflect (support element to recharge Day Master).

This is how you flexibly use the Ten Gods to your advantage, and also enact the 1/3 self-actions to your advantage.
The Bazi chart reading is just a blueprint/map/reference guide to your life.

[darmario]

Thankyou again for the insight!  And if you don't mind, I have some more questions to ask:

Branch: Double Chen-You combinations, throw them aside. Left Chou to suppress/hurt Hai.

Born in Autumn season with that many Metal weakening Earth, how can Chou left to hurt a strong supported Hai? Is it because in this method because of not using DM strength and seasonal strength two You combining with two Chen makes no more Metal to help Water, hence Chou can hurt Hai, is this correct?
If this is correct, so If there is Month of Wood-Wood, will this means Chou won't hurt Hai and the other Wood help Bing. Does this means this will be the best month I'll have?

I am just worried about the support element as a double-edged sword: you are "heaven-blessed" to receive more help than normal people

Looking at this, I actually don't feel any more "help", at school I study alone, I don't have any tuition when I'm young. Father and Mother does place foods on table but doesn't most of the people also the same? I do my own jobs at work, I study the CNC machine myself without anyone helps and now I'm the only one who can operate it. Even with this many resources, I don't really feel "help" from anyone at all, I play games alone. Also, the people who I gave money to is actually my parents. I don't have any friends so how can I spend money on no one? And doesn't parents is Resources element? I think all of this lonely stuff because of my star of arts?

I'm sorry if I'm asking too much but I do interested in this style of Bazi, is there any resources available put there so I can study it to gain more prespective?
thankyou again for your insight!

[aeonrel]

@darmario ,

Born in Autumn season with that many Metal weakening Earth, how can Chou left to hurt a strong supported Hai? Is it because in this method because of not using DM strength and seasonal strength two You combining with two Chen makes no more Metal to help Water, hence Chou can hurt Hai, is this correct?

Yes, that is the idea.

If this is correct, so If there is Month of Wood-Wood, will this means Chou won't hurt Hai and the other Wood help Bing. Does this means this will be the best month I'll have?

Your general idea is kind-of correct, especially for the decade and annual luck pillars. BUT when it comes to factoring in rolling months, the game changes a little. This is the "advanced" version of Five Elements school. You have to resolve the month pillar interaction with the annual pillar alone first, then resolve the natal + decade + annual together. This can have vast effect on the eventual "equation", especially if the month pillar clashes / combine away elements on the annual pillar, prior to resolving the natal + decade + annual.

So if a Wood-Wood month comes along….say Jia-Yin, Feb in 2023. You have to see the outcome of Jia-Yin vs Gui-Mao. In this case, Jia and Gui does not clash, Yin and Mao also doesn't. So the month does not affect the eventual equation. But let's say Xin-You month, Xin and Gui are ok, but You clashes away Mao. So when you evaluate the branches for natal + decade + annual, you start off missing the Mao already, because it is already gone. Depending on the eventual elemental interaction, the missing element(s) could very well turn the flow from smooth to clashing or vice versa. This is very crucial when you start looking at months, days, or even hours.

Looking at this, I actually don't feel any more "help", at school I study alone, I don't have any tuition when I'm young. Father and Mother does place foods on table but doesn't most of the people also the same? I do my own jobs at work, I study the CNC machine myself without anyone helps and now I'm the only one who can operate it. Even with this many resources, I don't really feel "help" from anyone at all, I play games alone. Also, the people who I gave money to is actually my parents. I don't have any friends so how can I spend money on no one? And doesn't parents is Resources element? I think all of this lonely stuff because of my star of arts?

A few ways to look at this:
   1. I am completely wrong in my reading - possible, I am still a learner.
   2. Maybe I should not expect the help to be more because Geng and You are lost to combinations, leaving only 1 support, which is pretty average.
   3. In traditional Bazi, your Yous are Voided, so that can also be the cause of not getting the support you should have
   4. Maybe you are truly having a healthy support from family, but it seems very average to you, which is a very human nature thing to feel that way when not faced with hardships.
For me I think it will probably be #2.

Regarding the Friend luck, if you really do not have friends, then the destined interaction will not affect you.

Regarding the Star of Arts, that can be the contributing factor, from a Shen Sha / Symbolic Star perspective. If you go by the Ten Gods perspective, then it can be attributed to the loss of the Yi (expressiveness) due to combination with Geng.

I'm sorry if I'm asking too much but I do interested in this style of Bazi, is there any resources available put there so I can study it to gain more prespective?

You can search for 五行派 on Youtube, but almost all contents are in chinese, and none will teach for free. But if you analyse a large enough quantity of their case studies, you can slowly piece the system together.

https://www.youtube.com/@chineseastrologyfiveelemen4121
This is the only english-speaking Youtuber on Five Elements school that I could find.