Mixing different settings, rules and even different YiJing systems

[throosden]

Okay so this came up in another topic (https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1546.msg12650#msg12650)
Maybe is interesting enough to discuss it separately.

Multiple questions:

In WWG, does the setting you use influence the received answer?
In WWG, does the rules you use influence the received answer?
Does the interpretation method (text based or WWG) influence the received answer?

Personally, I think yes in all cases and of course this implies that you need to fix all these things before doing the casting. But if the answer really is no, then of course it means that you don't have to do it.

[Sacrar]

In my experience it does influence, now that it influences does not mean that it is necessary or Sine qua non condition to always set the framework/system/rules. You will still get a more or less useful answer. For example Harmen says that you always get what you need independent of what system you use, your rules or even your knowledge.

Now if you are looking for precision and accuracy the most convenient thing to do is to set the frame. But even so I have seen several cases published in social networks where even setting an elaborate and analytical framework results in not accurate. So there will be more variables in the matter that I don't know. I guess something inherent related to any divination system.

regarding mixing systems, sometimes I do it, sometimes I do not. Sometimes classic text-based yijing is complementary to WWG. Other times they contradict each other, so when I only want trigram or text based reading I use different coins for casting. Even Mei Hua and WWG in my experience often find contradictions in interpretation.

In Sandifer's book, The authentic I Ching he advocates doing an "integrative reading" by mixing different methods (Mei Hua, Hexagram Meaning, texts, Liu Yao) and has some examples of cases where he does that.

[throosden]

Hmm, yeah, I don't know...

What I have been wondering about is if when we do a WWG casting, can we only do WWG analysis, or does textual meaning of hexagram and transformed hexagram give any information about the situation at all. I used to do it like that (combining them). But recently, not so sure anymore about that. And I keep them completely separate from each other. For example, as far as I know, AK never looks at the textual meaning of hexagram.

Can we always find the textual meaning of a hexagram somewhere in the interacting WWG components? I guess, I could check that.

[throosden]

So there will be more variables in the matter that I don't know. I guess something inherent related to any divination system.

Seems to me that something like being in a really bad or a really good feng shui direction (in terms of communication) could perhaps have an influence on the quality of the answer. Never used feng shui though ...

[ren]

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[throosden]

regarding mixing systems, sometimes I do it, sometimes I do not. Sometimes classic text-based yijing is complementary to WWG. Other times they contradict each other

Okay, so when do you mix and when do you not mix? 

But yes, I noticed it too, sometimes when I did WWG, I get an answer and I tend to also give meaning to the textual meaning of the hexagram itself because it seemed to match. Sometimes it doesn't match and then I don't. So seems logical to me to completely stop mixing them, at least until it becomes more clear to me how these systems are connected to each other.

[throosden]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but the rules and "Setting" are one's own requirements, not the querent's.

The way I understand it, rules and setting are the language that diviner and "the universe" use to communicate with each other. "universe" will answer the question within this established framework. So not sure if it really makes sense that we play with these things after the casting was already done (unless perhaps you really have a lot of experience in using the system) or that everyone uses their own rules and/or setting to interpret the casting.

WWG to me seems to be really different from regular yijing, whether text based or trigram and line based. Most important thing seems to me the extra information that comes from the day and month branch which:

* gives power to the lines
* sets the 6 animals
* sets the 6 kins
* creates combinations, clashes, ... with the day and month branch

So there is much more information in a WWG casting then in a regular casting ...

[Gmuli]

In my view, we can see very good cases for both ideas. Systems align with each other and they don't...
In my current understanding, they are supposed to align with each other, the reason they don't in some cases is because of parts missing in the systems. Aand that are the cases when there is very detailed in intricate framework used not allowing 'synchronicity' to fill up the missing portions of the systems. As if we use surface rules(simple stuff) then it will align by itself in most questions. But that can only be done as someone starts.

So since rules of it all are coherent and whole in theory all 3 systems(WWG, Yi Jing and Mei Hua) are suppose to align. They don't because more is needed for them to reflect fully the situations. Yet since in practice synchronicity takes over that portion that was never fully cleared out it seems.

With time some of these 'unfinished' parts become very easy to see. Hexagrams like 7.The Army for Yi Jing for example that are soo far away from the actual processes that unfold when these 2 fields interact, or more or less anything related to war... In Mei Hua is too many to count, as it takes simple Image of the interactions(Produce/Restrain etc.) and tries to apply it everywhere. In some(many) cases that is not the most important Image when some situation/hexagram unfold, so other then synchronicity it has to be fully reworked to actually map out in a valid way.

And WWG... But WWG is too intricate to be able to follow it all, so likely first may need to repair the other two.

What can be done, then. For someone that is starting - doesn't matter, there are processes that will take care of it in many cases.
Later on taht is bigger problem, although by then there are more tools one ca use.

In my view, to be able to repair that part we need to understand deeper the process. And there are 2 directions I have taken some years ago.
First is the idea the answer is first received in the nervous system. Then the rational parts of us are integrating as much of it as we allow. That is how some of the key people in the US Remote Viewing program view part of it when it first started(as it seems its mess now). And while some thought they discarded it later, I never discarded that idea, at least yet. While it may seem RV is entirely different process in its essence I view it as the same principle as this.

Other parth is that the answer is first received in the eletromagnetic forms around the body. Most likely as a synthesized Image in one of the 'Spheres'. Then is processed by the other shapes coming out of the Cube and integrated as much as we allow it, of course.

For first I focus on TCM and Inner Alchemy. For second on what we call Sacred Geometry and general electric/magnetic theories and frameworks. With the idea with time it will link to what we actually map out in clearer way and we can rework the systems so they fit into each other flawlessly, as that seems to be needed for both sides out there.

I get we aren't always fans of change, but some of the systems may need a little patching up if we want them to perform better then 'synchronicity' that works for all divination systems anyway. No way around that, in my understanding , currently.