South vs North BaZi practical example

[Gmuli]

As this keeps coming up in different places and it seems many members(at least in the other forum), doesn't seem to take as accurate the way masters and practitioners in the other hemisphere are adjusting it, lets make example for ourselves. : )

We need something very clear and visible, as its someone we don't know personally, so details are easily missed.

Lets view Elon Musk then.
Born in South Africa, founder of space X and a lot of other stuff, more info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk


So we work with 2 charts here. As people around us and outsite world are in month/year we should be able to notice the differences without the hour, if we know what we are doing.

So normal north chart:

  DM
? Jia Jia Xin
? Shen Wu Hai


Lets look at work done in the first chart.

Stems... No work done, only relation would be Jia being controlled by Xin, authority/structures in the outside world seems to be controlling/restricting him.
Branches Wu and Hai have hidden combination. Shen and Hai have harm.
Problem with what is inside him and the outside world. Nothing beneficial as the hidden combination doesn't relate to him in any way its even rejected from Shen<>Hai in the same gang.
Even if it wasn't, one combination between month and year - nowhere near enough for what we see in real life.


Inverted month pillar for the other hemisphere:

  DM
? Jia Ji Xin
? Shen Zi Hai

Lets look at south inverted chart now.
Jia tries to obtain Ji, he will look for wealth, assets. Founder of PayPal - seems to fit...
That will be successful as Shen and Zi combine in the branches, bringing the asset to the DM.
Ji controls Xin, that asset will help him control what otherwise will control him, the authority in multinational level.

Lets look at branches now.
Shen combines with Zi. Also attaining it, Output also can play as wealth here as it has wealth on top, even more wealth will be attained from what he does(output).

Shen and Hai harm isn't a problem, as he is getting aligned with that from the Zi being same element. Means he can make stuff in multinational level, as he will make it near him first(welath and output in the month both combining with Day pillar), and then will move to the outside form Ji controlling Xin and Zi same element as Hai.

So, lets see. Any other ways to read it that will make the non inverted version that will make it more accurate?
No work done, harm between him and year without buffer, outside authorities controlling him in the stems... This is very poor chart so far, may become a little better with hour pillar, but the general lines are these.

People supporting the idea of non inverted charts are more then welcome to explain how they would read it.
Should be very easy, person that has very big impact on the world and his chart. : )


P.M I haven't specifically chosen chart that doesn't make any sense without inversion it was just chart of person we all likely are familiar with from news etc.

[Gmuli]

Have to add for clarity that there is one more way to read it, that may seem to fit at first glance.
If we work with the idea that Wood<>Fire gang will control and obtain Metal/water as authority/knowledge(from hidden combination), that is work done obtaining knowledge. However it isn't using your own knowledge as outside world knowledge is what is obtained using expression/creativity. Without Ji there isn't wealth obtained in such a clear way either.
So while it may fit a little more then it seemed at first, still isn't as clear as the inverted chart.

However, there is also traditional style. No matter if we use month commander or just look at the month branch/season DM in both cases will be weak in the normal chart, as Fire will exhaust the Wood DM.
Strong in the inverted chart and by all rules I'm aware of Musk doesn't seem to be weak DM. : )

[herut]

Pele famous futbol player from Brazil is a good example,

North Chart

HHDDMMYY

Ren Ding Bing Geng
Yin  You   Xu  Chen

South Chart- I think? correct me if I'm wrong

Ren Ding Gui Geng
Yin  You   Yin  Chen

[Phoenix]

Pele famous futbol player from Brazil is a good example,

North Chart

HHDDMMYY

Ren Ding Bing Geng
Yin  You   Xu  Chen

South Chart- I think? correct me if I'm wrong

Ren Ding Gui Geng
Yin  You   Yin  Chen

maybe South version sould be Chen month? No Gui Yin pillar >.<

imho, the north chart is more suit for a football player. Ding DM and Bing Xu are linked. Xu as output and DM's body performs main works on chart. Bing  (parallel star) is involved, indicates a team game and competitive work.

[Gmuli]

Pele famous futbol player from Brazil is a good example,

North Chart

HHDDMMYY

Ren Ding Bing Geng
Yin  You   Xu  Chen

South Chart- I think? correct me if I'm wrong

Ren Ding Gui Geng
Yin  You   Yin  Chen

+5 for stems
+6 for branches

So what Phoenix said - Xu turns to Chen.
If we invert stems Bings turns to Ren.

However, there may be differences, logically stem may need inversion, but in any case practical examples would be more important.

Ren Ding Ren Geng
Yin  You   Chen  Chen

Reversed. . So there we have very, very strong Metal<>Water<>Wet earth gang, trying to obtain the DM, so the world wants what he has. Making everything a lot more beneficial as well.

You combines with the 2 chens, Ding is combining with Hour and Month...
A lot of work done, then we have both Rens falling in Chen, more work done with authority being lost in performance(output).
And a lot of performance, while Chen is closed, that won't bring a lot of authority with it, but is still there to interact with. Seems to fit. Only the part of using physical body seems to be missing, so maybe more beneficial in Fire branches.


In the Xu chart, there is still stuff going on. If we look at Ding as falling with Bing in Xu, then we have work with some connection to the physical body, as Xu is clashing Chen now, so people around and his physical body lost in performance and that performance clashing the outer world...
Also brings a lot of authority with it as Water falls out of Chen.
That much authority doesn't seem to fit even though there is more connection to physical body here, I would go with the inverted chart again as much more work done and stronger images because of the reversed chart.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Pele famous futbol player from Brazil is a good example,

North Chart

HH   DD   MM   YY
Ren Ding Bing Geng
Yin   You   Xu   Chen

imho, the north chart is more suit for a football player. Ding DM and Bing Xu are linked. Xu as output and DM's body performs main works on chart. Bing  (parallel star) is involved, indicates a team game and competitive work.

Yes, I agree with the whole reasoning for a football player there. 

South Chart

Ren  Ding  Ren  Geng
Yin   You   Chen  Chen

Lack of strong Fire root.

Question: between the two charts, which chart leads to a more marriage stable life? 

[JLim (Darma W)]

Lets view Elon Musk then.
Born in South Africa, founder of space X and a lot of other stuff, more info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Ah, Elon Musk, as smart and sexy as he may be, I would not choose his chart for the research of the Southern Hemisphere theory.  It's because we already have uncertainties for the hour to start with.

[Gmuli]

Pele is even more unclear... In his autobiography he has given 23 october as time of birth, on birth certificate is 21 october... What would we choose unknown md in 1940 in Brazil, or what the person is giving... Both obviously may have problems when it is 2 days apart...

Wikipedia is giving alternative view as well(supporting entirely different day pillar)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9

So lets keep looking I guess.

[Gmuli]

Question: between the two charts, which chart leads to a more marriage stable life? 

Edit: Yea, with the harm and all that is for the non inverted as well...

[Rapanui]

Question: between the two charts, which chart leads to a more marriage stable life? 

That being said, if we look the charts for 21 october, about the marriage part... We have massive harm to spouse palace in the non inverted chart(You<>Xu), vs combination in the inverted... And Pele had 3 marriages... So I would say again the inverted chart.

IMO this "massive harms" fits better to his 3 marriages because 2 early were "harmed".
 

[Gmuli]

Actually was the other way around, just edited. The harm is in the non inverted.

[Gmuli]

In that sense if you think harm fits stable marriage then you should be for the inverted as well... ; )

Also means in this specific case - yea, the non inverted fits better.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Pele is even more unclear... In his autobiography he has given 23 october as time of birth, on birth certificate is 21 october... What would we choose unknown md in 1940 in Brazil, or what the person is giving... Both obviously may have problems when it is 2 days apart...

Hi Gmuli, look at Source Notes in astro-databank.  October 21st looks credible.
B.C. copy in hand from Marcello Borges stating Pele's birth date as October 21st. Evidently, early in Pele's career a seer advised him to say that he was born three days later, October 24, to get a stronger Scorpio image.

[Gmuli]

Yea, its bad for the inverted charts community... But check Cristiano Ronaldo(new topic).

http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=627.0