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Author Topic: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast  (Read 7970 times)

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Offline ren

Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« on: August 18, 2022, 01:26:09 AM »
Hi All,

If you do not know, Harmen Mesker had an Yi Jing podcast. His most recent (8/2/2020) discuses the Wen Wang Gua system.
The podcast is mostly an overview, but there are some interesting things mentioned. Harmen also reviews three case studies.
The podcast runs slightly over an hour.



ren

 

Offline Sacrar

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2022, 08:34:52 PM »
Yes, Harmen has an interesting youtube yijing channel too. He has his main channel and now a podcast channel. I watched a few minutes of this video until they say something like some people are trying to make the system more complicated than it should be.

It reminded me of what I read from I don't know who saying that systems like WWG that have a few rules become more complicated in the end, however those that have many rules (qi men, for example) become easier over time. And he seems to be right, from my point of view. WWG can be as complicated as you want it to be. And the more you study/practice the more things you feel you are missing or need to learn.

Offline sleepyfreud

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2022, 02:57:36 PM »
Harmen mesker had a course that ren attended; I was too late to register. I do not know why it has not be offered again.

Offline ren

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2022, 01:04:52 AM »
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Gmuli

  • Guest
Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2022, 03:00:01 PM »
Quote
some people are trying to make the system more complicated than it should be.

While I haven't watched it and the way it goes probably woudn't be able to do so, anytime soon(a lot of material to watch, lately), I should address this on its own.
It seems wise to assume this isn't refering to the old sources, Alex Chiu or Jack Chiu etc. As they can be viewed as complex, yet no point saying that now, as they have been here for a while. So wise to assume that refers to newer sources.

There are many other practitinoers and schools that do have WWG courses, but most of them are too expensive to just randomly test, so wise to assume the content there isn' what is ment, either.

Then we are left with the 2 schools that started their WWG courses, lately.
One is a very big and somewhat known school that we commented about here, the other is AK school.
In both cases I think they aren't 'more complex then they should be'.
For different reasons.

For the big school... What we saw from the free taping was one very advanced technique, that was exactly as complex as it should have been. Long to explain why, again comes witht he 'advanced settings'.
As it basically it allows to get a yes/no without encumbering the setting at all. Not sure all there will be able to use it, fully, as i don't know how much setting they will make, and withotu that its just yes/no. But never the less its amazing technique by all counts.

The other technique was the XKFX thing, I don't think that will work, but too complex to go into. Western metaphysical orders have similar techniques with Tarot, it works there, but there are other things needed for it. That are needed to  make the Image stable etc. Could be in the paid course, or on the days I didn't watch(just watched first few), so who knows...

The rest was not very complex, was the usual WWG stuff from another perspective in my view. Some parts seemed missing, may be in the full course, no idea.

So we have 1 very advanced technique - definitely not more complex then it need to be,also 1 technique that may not work. No matter if it does or not, problem is not the complexity. The rest of the material seemed simple enough.

Not saying it wasn't good, I don't really know, the advanced technique was definetly awesome, the rest I was a little worried for missing stuff, but may be in the paid course or the other days. 
They have the habit of improving their courses. The Feng Shui free taping last time was so good, I was happy I watched it. So right now is  not too complex, if there are other problems it will likely get better next year.

Then we are left with Ak school.
And the case there is different. The level 1 course is not more complex then it needs to be, in my humble view and I will try to explain why...
The way I view it, the popular system allows one to set one thing. Focus/Yong Shen etc. whatever we want to call it. But reliably one or at most 2 things at the same time.That is in the classics, in the most courses and in all books on the topic with few exceptions. There are exceptions, but overall that is it.
In the level 1 course by AK we can see the way to go above all that, see its problems and be able to start making more advanced settings with many elements set from the start.

That suggest more complexity, but it isn't more then it has to be. Its exactly the amount it needs to be if we want advanced settings.

Considering al that I don't think its too complex, I thiik its just providing the next step for people that are already familiar with the system in its popular context(setting 1 focus, in most cases) and want to go deeper.

So its like person that learned to juggle 2 balls at the same time, saying all these videos and courses of people teaching how to juggle 3 are more complex then they should be.
Depending on ones aims that may or may not be true, but in AKs material in his level 1 course, we have clear and consistent explanation of the problems with the classical texts and approaches. And the way out of them.

If one is happy with just using 1 focus, then its all good, doesn't need that. Yet if we want to go deeper and use complex settings we have to be prepared for all getting a little more complex, be that pointed at some of the techniques of the first school or the level 1 material of the second.

Overall, I have to disagree. In my humble opinion, AK stuff is exactly the amount of complex it needs to be...

Offline throosden

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2023, 07:59:51 AM »
For the big school... What we saw from the free taping was one very advanced technique, that was exactly as complex as it should have been. Long to explain why, again comes witht he 'advanced settings'.
As it basically it allows to get a yes/no without encumbering the setting at all. Not sure all there will be able to use it, fully, as i don't know how much setting they will make, and withotu that its just yes/no. But never the less its amazing technique by all counts.

The other technique was the XKFX thing, I don't think that will work, but too complex to go into. Western metaphysical orders have similar techniques with Tarot, it works there, but there are other things needed for it. That are needed to  make the Image stable etc. Could be in the paid course, or on the days I didn't watch(just watched first few), so who knows...

The rest was not very complex, was the usual WWG stuff from another perspective in my view. Some parts seemed missing, may be in the full course, no idea.

So we have 1 very advanced technique - definitely not more complex then it need to be,also 1 technique that may not work. No matter if it does or not, problem is not the complexity. The rest of the material seemed simple enough.

Not saying it wasn't good, I don't really know, the advanced technique was definetly awesome, the rest I was a little worried for missing stuff, but may be in the paid course or the other days. 
They have the habit of improving their courses. The Feng Shui free taping last time was so good, I was happy I watched it. So right now is  not too complex, if there are other problems it will likely get better next year.

Something which is perhaps useful to mention, since you didn't see the last day of the 4 day event from this school. (forgot to mention this when we discussed this previously) The recording for this event was something other than the actual YiJing course which he released later that year. It was some extra package which you could get on top of the base package, simple stuff about asking the right question, ... So I guess we didn't really see any of the content of his actual wen wang gua course. A little bit misleading I would say :)

Gmuli

  • Guest
Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2023, 09:40:48 AM »
I see. That explains a lot. Well, there was opportunity for WWG to come to the west... I think that is slipping away more and more. Harmen started making WWG courses in non English languages,  I'm getting tired of it all and moving in other directions for a while now and most other people interested seems to have given up as well. Even in here we moved much more to bazi and that is what the forum is about after all. Group in facebook is inactive for a long time as well.

Missing the right timing to open up, usually leads to things closing down. Its all good, for us that means after the android apps will likely move to game design. And leave all this mess behind.

Yet in parts of Asia, of course, there are succesful courses and schools, so its not like it will disapear. And someday there may be more chances. For now it was a good run, seems wise to prepare to move to other systems or other fields if one haven't already. Good for us we noticed the direction long time ago, so the expectation from the WWG material now is minimum at most, at this point.


Offline andponomarev

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2023, 07:13:59 PM »
Good for us we noticed the direction long time ago, so the expectation from the WWG material now is minimum at most, at this point.
That's a pity. What would you suggest then? Learning Chinese and getting information about WWG from China / Asia? I wouldn't like WWG knowledge to be lost :(

Offline sleepyfreud

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2023, 12:54:46 PM »
The Alfred Kee course is available at udemy.com

https://www.udemy.com/course/celestial-wwg-beginnerp1-lawofyi/

Offline andponomarev

Re: Wen Wang Gua system discused in podcast
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2023, 01:40:04 PM »
Thanks, I own both books of AK. Maybe it's worth watching his courses as well.