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Author Topic: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:  (Read 18443 times)

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Offline DiegoFS

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Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2020, 06:27:34 AM »
Regarding the use of the word "Tape" that I get the idea what do you mean: "connection" or a "bridge" of energy (it seems to be the most likely interpretation of the ancient Chinese philosophers) and being so, the expression "the Seal and the Tape” would be perfectly valid. Because it would be telling us that there is a very deep connection in the nucleus of the natal chart, between the Master Day and the Useful Energy.

Either way, the Seal and the Ribbon is a Qi that is usually favorable, as long as it assumes the Command of the Natal Chart.

Having said this to clarify that if the aforementioned parallel is transformed, or does not stand out in the branches, or falls into a Death and Void (Kong Wang), or has many Shocks that neutralize it, the graph is disordered because the Useful Energy moves towards the Celestial Stem of the Year or towards the Pillar of the Hour, and in this sense, the Structure adopts another form. This being the case, the Seal and the Ribbon would become an unimportant, inconsequential and second-order Energy.

In Trey's writings and translations, he precisely refers that many important personalities have it but this condition is valid as long as the Earthly Branch of the Month is the true Master Governor of the District. I think that in the old forums there had been some discussions about it.

At some point, a Natal Chart with these characteristics will appear and it would serve as a practical example to qualify it.

Offline Dao

Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2020, 04:16:54 PM »
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Offline Charles

Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2020, 04:50:45 PM »
How about using the term "support" in substituting for resource or seal?

Some people are wondering how come some schools uses Resource instead of Seal / Support/ Empowerment ?
i had a quick chat with a fellow who uses the term Resources.

Apparently it is more for practical application for modern people.
Believed that because Seal happens to be the element that produces the Day Master in the Production cycle of the 5 elements thus for easier placement or visualization in terms of relationship; they chose to use Resources as it is more practical or application based. Useful in charting too.

In actual fact, if one chose on being "literal" as in the 5 elements, each element is accorded the Yin & Yang polarity; the actual term would be Righteous (Zheng Yin) Seal (正印) and Alternative (Pian Yin) Seal (偏印) and classically more appropriate accordingly.

Perhaps we all are looking at these wrongly as before we even come to the definition of best words to use in English, we should ask ourselves to what Purposeful application or goal is the usage/context before deciding on the words.

So i guess other than discussed; there's currently 3 categories of choice of words selected used based on purpose:
1) Practical application i.e. following the cycle of 5 elements or for visual placement in relationship
2) Lexical meaning i.e. more so on the meaning of the term in common usage in today's times OR stated as simply as possible in order to convey information to the widest audience globally.
3) Non lexical meaning which can include "literal translation"  i.e. (Pian Yin) (偏印) can be literally translated as Alternative/Deviate/Slant Seal.

For example on the above:
1) For practical application in terms of placement in production cycle of 5 elements: ReSource would be apt
2) For lexical meaning in English language, some would chose Empowerment/Support etc. etc.
3) For "literal translation" keeping the traditional words to relate to ancient times instead of modern times and original language then Pian Yin or Seal would be apt.
   - so like 'Dao' comment, he likes his PinYin so i guess he would likely stick to the classical transliteration which would be best.

All the above are best in each category; really depending on fit of purpose.

My 2 cents.

Cheers

Online tyc

Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2020, 06:56:43 PM »
Practical, lexical, non lexical are more like using them as noun, IMO. 

What if we try to explain an action in a sentence?  If we were to use these gods/agencies/elements as verbs or action verbs, what word(s) are best to use to describe their movements?

Trey website, he stated that in a natal chart HS moves where as EB doesn't move (it does like earth quakes /clashes / penality...etc).  Thus, should we treat EB elements as nouns and HS elements as actionable (verbs) gods/agencies?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 07:21:21 PM by tyc »

Offline DiegoFS

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Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2020, 10:26:00 PM »
In reference to the comments of Dao and Charles, I would like to comment the following:

Pinyin is very useful to use due to the diversity of schools and if we add to that the 7,000 languages in the world, the situation becomes more complicated.

In reality it happens with professionals in biology and botany: there are hundreds of thousands of plants in the world, to avoid confusion they place what they call the common name of the plant according to the region where it is grown, but in parentheses is placed the inernational or scientific name in Latin.

And it is the least traumatic way of handling the diversity of concepts, in my case I usually write the term I apply and the name in pinyin in parentheses so that anyone can detect it. For example, as I avoid saying Food God, I say Nutrition Factor (Shí Shén 食神), and thus any reader will be clear about what I mean.

But going back to the beginning of the post, we should try to use English terms that are a bit more modern and that bear some practical resemblance to the application of any of the 10 Energies or Transformation Qi. We may never agree, but if there is a standard of 80%, that would be enough. And by adding the pinyin to its side in parentheses, any conceptual doubts are clarified.

Regarding tyc's comment, personally I almost always convert the energies of the graph into explanatory sentences, because in principle, it is assumed that the person consulting is not an expert in BaZi, so that one assumes the “role” of translating the Letter in real situations that situations happened before or are about to happen. In a way, BaZi has a large amount of energies that "speak in their own language", the interesting thing is to acquire the ability to know how to discover it, and as already mentioned before in trying to give "solutions" to the person who consults, especially when big trouble comes.

But neither should we condition "rigid sentences", because the energies are mixed and acquire certain nuances with the Na Yin, with the Interactions, with the Structures, with the Heralds, with the Seasons, with the Composite Stars and the Auxiliaries and sometimes it appears a Death and Void, a Heaven in Void, the Useful Energy assumes a leading role for better or for worse. It would be counterproductive to propose that the 10 Agents have a predetermined role (under a sentence), because the reading is holistic (integral) and would not allow it.

I want to thank all the forum members who have been participating, because all these valuable ideas help us to provide feedback on the different philosophical, geographical, idiomatic and conceptual positions. From where I am I only see my own focus and not that of others, so I feel as if I am located on a satellite or in a spaceship outside of planet earth, and thus I can have a more global perspective of BaZi.

I would like to add a point that Charles makes regarding polarity (Yin and Yang): from my own experience (I have seen it many times and repeatedly) and I have already observed it in other people, the polarity opposite to that of the Master Day is more helpful, generous and enriching than polarity itself. Here if you apply a concept that is used in physics that "opposites attract."

Thus, for example, for a person whose Master Day is Yang Wood, in general terms a Yin Metal (Direct Officer), Yin Water (Seal), Yin Earth (Direct Wealth), Yin Fire (Hurting Officer) are more convenient. The only exception is with the Parallel, where the Yang Wood (Lu) is the most suitable. Naturally, everything is nuanced according to the total configuration of the Natal Chart (everything is relative) and the Energies that appear on the horizon of time (Cycle of the 10 Years, the Year, the Month and the Hours that go emerging).

However, there must always be a point of balance, because if a Yang Wood receives the impact of three Yin Metals, in this case it is a Positive Energy but that becomes a harmful process.


Offline Jiyou

Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2020, 01:27:35 PM »
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Offline DiegoFS

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Re: RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2020, 04:00:00 PM »
Well, Jiyou: unfortunately for Traditional School BaZi Astrology, Trey Tang has retired (seems to be doing other business) and apparently sometimes just comes to say hello to the Forum. But hey, at least as a consolation maybe one day you can ask him for a virtual autograph. It would have been wonderful to have been able to debate with him here, but we may never have that privilege.

Personally, I am a student of Trey and his ancient translations, if it were up to me I would install a statue in Five Arts as a reminder of his academic contributions and having rescued the Millennial Manuscripts from the shadows of time, especially for of us, we don´t know how to translate ancient Mandarin.