RE-EVALUATION OF SOME TERMS OF THE CHINESE BAZI ASTROLOGY:

[DiegoFS]

A warm greeting to JLim, Tyc and Ren.

First of all I am very sad that Trey Tan has retired and has not republished. But his translations have been immensely valuable. Personally, I owe 90% of my knowledge to Trey, he deserves to be made a statue or a reminder. For not being Western, your research is of immeasurable value.

As q 7K, it becomes Indirect Official when combined with the Nutrition Factor or the Seal, and thus becomes a good energy, as mentioned by JLim.

I do not see any problem when saying: Seal or Resource or Support (as proposed by tyc), any of the three is perfect. I sometimes write Seal and sometimes Resource, and if I had to write Support for, I would be fine.

Later I will read the link just sent by ren (thanks a lot).

I have to go out to do some urgent errands and I'll be back later. I have an idea about 7K, but in a few hours and more calmly I will sit down and write to you.

[tyc]

Here is my take on these three words:
Seal in a sense could represents authority because in the olden days no subjects within the kingdom will act without either the king's words or his written commands plus the seal.

Resources in a sense could represent a source of energy that might be used when it's available to the user.  However, resources doesn't need authority but simply have procession in order to be used.

Support in a sense is not resource but rather someone or something willing to do or provide you service without authority.  More like someone is loyalist without having to pay them for their actions.

Almost the same meaning but different level of willingness in supporting the day master.  What does everyone else think?

[tyc]

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[trey]

Hi Pak Jlim and all,

I have almost forgotten that i was doing some works in this field. That was so long ago. I saw an email in my inbox that I was mentioned, so I just pop up to say hi.

Happy mid autumn and

Regards to everybody

[DiegoFS]

I can't believe Trey Tan is here in the Forum. It's really amazing, I'm one of your most loyal fans. My name is Diego, I live in Bogotá, Colombia. The other side of the world. At least I am 11 hours away between Asia and America, I suppose it is day there, it is night here.
It would be nice if you came to visit us. I have read all your translations and they are really fantastic.

[DiegoFS]

I have an idea about the use of the word 7K, it is a very strong term: "seven murders", and we could try to find a word a little more suitable. Even up to 3K, it is still very aggressive, if I may use the term.

As what this energy does is control the Master Day, I am going to propose to the Forum the daily use of the word "Control-K", it seems to me something more consistent, more generic and global.

Still, I'd like to discuss it and make some adjustments. The plan would be to find points of agreement, a consensus among the Foristas.

[DiegoFS]

Regarding Tyc's proposal, it would be interesting to consider it. I must clarify that I have no idea of the Chinese language, so I do not know to what extent my opinion is valid. I suppose that ancient Mandarin will have its own semantics, its dialectical and even philosophical bases.

The energy of the Seal (or Resource) represents support and family help, it is also linked with intelligence and education and even in health. Now, if it is more precise to use the term “support”, it would be decisive to include its context and in this sense the Tyc proposal is good to take into account.

It is worth clarifying that the Indirect Seal Piān Yìn 偏 印 turns into an aggressive Shí Dào Shí 食 倒 食 Owl (in torrential nutrition), under certain characteristics to the detriment of the Shí Shén 食神 Nutrition Factor. That is, it is not always favorable.

The Forists have the floor.

[DiegoFS]

I don't know to what extent it would be pertinent to ask Trey to return to Five Arts, you are an integral part of this Wisdom.  Even if wasn't as a text translator, but your Consultancies and Technical Reviews (even if they weren't constant) would be very valuable. A fraternal greeting from Colombia.

And for all Forum members equally, we will be in contact.

[tyc]

Regarding Tyc's proposal, it would be interesting to consider it. I must clarify that I have no idea of the Chinese language, so I do not know to what extent my opinion is valid. I suppose that ancient Mandarin will have its own semantics, its dialectical and even philosophical bases.

The energy of the Seal (or Resource) represents support and family help, it is also linked with intelligence and education and even in health. Now, if it is more precise to use the term “support”, it would be decisive to include its context and in this sense the Tyc proposal is good to take into account.

It is worth clarifying that the Indirect Seal Piān Yìn 偏 印 turns into an aggressive Shí Dào Shí 食 倒 食 Owl (in torrential nutrition), under certain characteristics to the detriment of the Shí Shén 食神 Nutrition Factor. That is, it is not always favorable.

The Forists have the floor.

Just to note, I can't read chinese as well.  The 3 types of definition were based on my readings on other sites & forum.

Agree eating owl (IR for Output or maybe R for HO) is another term used in Trey website.  My first pass on trey website was information overload.  I'll visit his website once I get more use in understanding the earth elements in he natal chart.

[DiegoFS]

OK, tyc, don't discount Trey's information, because it's a complete BaZi Library.

I recommend that you separate that information into separate folders on your computer, for example, everything from the Direct Officer (in one Folder), the Rob Wealth information in another, and so on.

When researching Composite Stars, you need to have all of that in a dedicated folder for that topic.
The same happens with the 12 Heralds (exclusive folder). Another for the Helpful Agent that is fundamental. Another for interactions ...

Another folder for the Seal and the Ribbon. Etc. It doesn't matter that you have to work with 30 or 40 or 50 separate folders. The important thing is to order all the information. If you do not do so, you will never finish learning and acquiring Mastery in this area. With organized folders and subfolders you can get clear ideas. There is a book that is also on the internet and you can download it for free, it is called the Secret Man's Poem, it is a very old but necessary translation.

Then you organize the information in your head, little by little. You must work hard and have patience and perseverance. You also have to practice from time to time, even if you make a mistake at first. You must use trial and error technique, because that gives you confidence and security.

My website is just under construction, when I have it ready I will pass the information here or you will find it in my personal profile (of this site). Likewise, more than anything else I am going to publish Birth Letters of Famous People and from time to time of ordinary people. I will be publishing little by little about Face and Hand Reading, Feng Shui. But it touches me little by little, because it is difficult to write mostly at the same time and it is a very extensive material. Here at Five Arts, I will try to post as time allows.

I will not publish on personal research unless there are conceptual errors in a book. But the Classic BaZi in general already has a defined body of doctrine.

Perhaps I will post little about I Ching, because there are too many Philosophical Schools and Teachers and I avoid getting into conflict. I try to follow the classical Confucian ideas of the Book of Changes a bit.

[DiegoFS]

I missed a couple of details.

The texts on Trey's website are in disarray. I suppose that as he was doing translations he attached the material one by one and never had time to organize it. Still, Trey's effort is worth a lot. But these materials must be systematized in order to give them a logical meaning.

And secondly, in the previous comment I put Helpful Agent which in Trey's translations appears as Helpful God or Yong Shen. From now on I will try to adopt and get used to the term Useful Energy, since there are opinions of Asian Forum Members who consider the word Agent as something out of context.

The intention is that in the East and the West we try to be more or less in agreement.

[Charles]

Hi DiegoFS,

Is there another paraphrase for "aggressive Shí Dào Shí 食 倒 食 Owl (in torrential nutrition)", as this sounded quite odd. Or even the use of the word "Ribbon" ?

Also "Seal" is the direct translation of "印" and this word itself as a noun can meant An Authoritative Seal, Credentialing Stamp; a Quality trace or a mark of compliance Safety or Safe passage etc. or as a verb to stamp or to print or to engrace or to conform etc.

It is no wonder some Taiwanese transliteration either use the word "Seal" or "Empowerment" (In the Spirit of Empowerment).
As it refers to all things that protect, safeguard, peace of mind, sense of well being, security, as in the ancient Chinese bureaucratic system , the Officer is assigned to a position bearing a seal to symbolize his authority, and empowerment to carry out the performance of duty.

Believed it applies to Western world in medieval times, the King's seal represent in similar vein.

Cheers

[tyc]

One word (example resource) can be used as a noun, verb, and adjective /adverb (represented in terms of degree / level).

[DiegoFS]

From the last comment by tyc, I will give my opinion: Resource is a masculine noun in the Spanish language (it is worth noting that it has one of the most complicated grammars in the world along with the language they speak on the island of Cyprus in the Mediterranean). In my language it is used a lot by lawyers, but that does not mean that in BaZi cannot be used.

Regarding the contributions of Charles I must say:

Torrential Nutrition is a term that Trey Tan used and that sounds good to me, at least for my language, it sounds good. It is a very strong energy that hurts Shi Shen.

With reference to the concept of Seal and Ribbon, it is also an old Chinese phrase, according to Trey's translations (Shòu Yìnshòu 绶 印 绶). It seems that it also means "wheel with teeth" in modern Chinese and possibly has other meanings. In itself it is when a parallel appears in the terrestrial branch of the month. For example, in days gone by in the birth chart of the son of the user DreamFlameCat (strong graph) and in which I made an analysis of such a graph: that same natal chart itself is from Seal and Ribbon, which does not take predominance there because the structure takes the form I explained there. To me personally, the word "Tape" o "Ribbon" doesn't mean anything to me. But I do not have elements of judgment, nor arguments to criticize it.

And as for the Seal or Resource or Support, I do not see a big problem.

I get used to the idea that in each language: German, Portuguese, French, Italian, Spanish, Chinese, Russian and others, each word adopts certain nuances and different meanings, therefore, it would be very difficult for the BaZi keywords to be right anchored to all languages. Surely, if someone from Romania or Slovenia read these posts, they would think according to those languages that our BaZi words are not valid there.

By this I mean that it would be very difficult for all the users to be satisfied with these terms in all the 7,000 languages in the world. At least if they remain consistent in English (which is the global language) would be more than enough.

I also make it clear that my English is quite limited, here I only do it with my google translator to communicate.

[tyc]

One word (example resource) can be used as a noun, verb, and adjective /adverb (represented in terms of degree / level).

There is gammer system in Latin / Greek but not in Chinese.  Thus, don't take the word / calligraphy literally that's all I'm trying to convey.