Ten heavenly stems Chinese Characters

[Spiritsfan]

Thanks for the link. Looking at the hieroglyph, it is clear why the word PROBABLY is used twice in a short phrase. Because it could be a needle, a silhouette without a shadow, a scratch, a trace of a drop of water. Anything. It is not worth wasting time and writing about Guo Moruo in open sources. He has no links to any substantiation of his version.

The pestle is an excellent version. It looks more like a sundial pointer with a minimal shadow - right under it. At noon. Because the people who wrote these hieroglyphs saw the sundial every day. Unlike you and the authors you cited . Google videos and photos of sundials. Read how they work. And after that, look at the Oracle hieroglyph. Attracting a horse - through the description of the hieroglyph, which is not given next to this statement. Doesn't this alarm you? Do you take people's word for it? . .Are you not interested, as a researcher, in how the hieroglyph turned from the meaning of noon into a horse?

And this is only one hieroglyph. Where showing the original form of the hieroglyph it is clear that the meaning of the hieroglyph can be different and radically differ from the meanings described in the dictionaries.

[zimon]

We find an explanation here:
... zodiac originated from the atmosphere of ancient animal worship and totem worship. Ancient Chinese scholars explained the relationship between earthly branches and animals from the perspective of the ancient twelve hours of day and night. The sky is black and the earth is in chaos. The rat comes out in the middle of the night and bites the chaos between heaven and earth. "The rat bites the sky and opens it," so the child is a rat. After the sky is opened, the next step is to create the earth, and "the earth was created by ugliness. The oxen plowing the fields should be the things that created the earth, so ugliness belongs to the ox." Yin time is the time when a person is born. Life must lead to death. Nothing can kill people more than a ferocious tiger. Yin also has the meaning of reverence, so Yin belongs to the tiger. Mao hour is the symbol of dawn. The sun should be Li Gua, Li Gua is like fire, and the Yin Yao in it is the essence of the sun or moon. In this way, Mao is a rabbit. Chen, the hexagram of March, is the season when dragons make rain. Chen is naturally a dragon. Already the hexagram of April means that at this time the spring grass is lush, which is a good day for snakes, like fish in water. In addition, it is already morning, and at this time the snake is returning to its cave, so it belongs to the snake. At noon, in the afternoon, the Yang Qi reaches its extreme and the Yin Qi emerges. Horses are animals that gallop and run with their hooves in the air, but occasionally touch the ground. Flying in the air is yang, walking on the ground is yin, and the horse jumps between yin and yang, so it becomes the zodiac sign of noon. For sheep, the best time to eat grass is in the afternoon, because it is easy to get fat. This is the wrong time, so it is not a sheep. Shenshi is the time when the sun approaches the West Mountain and the monkeys sing, and monkeys like to stretch out their arms and jump at this time, so monkeys are matched with Shen. You are when the moon appears. The moon belongs to water and corresponds to Kan Gua. The Kan hexagram has yin lines above and below, and the yang line in the middle represents the essence of the sun and the golden crow. Therefore, Unity belongs to the chicken. When night falls, it is the time of Xu. Dogs are the pets that keep watch at night, so they become xugou. Then comes Haishi, and the sky and earth are immersed in a state of chaos, just like a fruit wrapped in a core. Everything in the world is covered at night during Haishi. Pigs are chaotic creatures that only know how to eat, so pigs became the zodiac sign of Hai. Zhu Xi, a famous Neo-Confucian scholar in the Song Dynasty, held this view.
https://www.cctv.com/geography/news/20021202/25.html#:~:text=%E5%8D%88%EF%BC%8C%E4%B8%8B%E5%8D%88%E4%B9%8B%E6%97%B6%EF%BC%8C%E9%98%B3,%E6%97%B6%EF%BC%8C%E6%95%85%E6%9C%AA%E5%B1%9E%E7%BE%8A%E3%80%82

[Spiritsfan]

Unfortunately, no. Let's not forget how old BaZi is. If you follow your link, you will see that it also says something like this.

As an ancient phenomenon of folk culture, scholars of all times have different opinions on the origin of the twelve zodiac animals.

Zhao Yi, a scholar of the Qing Dynasty, believed that the zodiac originated from the nomadic peoples in the north of my country. He said in the Yu Cong Gao: "At the dawn of northern customs, there was no such thing as twelve. days of Zizhou Yin, but the zodiac was divided into periods such as rat, ox, tiger and rabbit.

According to historical records and research, the zodiac appeared after the creation of the "Stem and Branch Calendar". The twelve animals correspond in turn to the twelve earthly branches, and the animals are used as symbols of the earthly branches.

Although the above hypothesis has a certain degree of credibility, if you think about it carefully, you will be able to draw a conclusion. The twelve branches cannot be the pictograms of the twelve animals, because as mentioned earlier, the twelve branches were skillfully used in the Yin and Shang Dynasties, and the zodiac signs belonged to the Spring and Autumn Period. These two have different origins. If the earthly branches were associated with the zodiac when creating characters, would the zodiac not have been created at the same time as the earthly branches?

To summarize, the author believes that the birth of the zodiac is later than the twelve earthly branches, but it is inseparable from the twelve earthly branches. As for the choice of twelve animals as symbols, the zodiac is a link to the twelve earthly branches. replace the twelve earthly branches. It also originates from the psychology of animal worship of ancient people.

There is no final conclusion, since the zodiac originated in ancient cultures, and people over time lost the original design of the device. Today's legends and stories are just appendices to it and can only rely on legends and imagination. There are roughly three explanations for the zodiac problem.

Taoism is the native religion of my country. It was founded in the Eastern Han Dynasty and has a history of more than 1,800 years. Taoism takes Yin-Yang and the Five Elements as its core teaching. Influenced by the concept of Yin-Yang and the Five Elements, Taoism has a natural close relationship with the heavenly stems, earthly branches, twelve zodiac animals, etc. The famous Taoist Baiyun Temple in Beijing includes the Yuanchen Hall, also known as the "Hall of Sixty Jiazi", which is a hall where believers pray to the god Yuanchen. The year of my birth is called Yuan Chen of my natal life. In ancient times, it was customary to worship the Star God Yuan Chen of my natal life and pray for good fortune, who was called "Shun Xing". Yuanchen Hall is the place where the Star God Yuanchen is worshiped. There are sixty-year-old statues in the hall. Starting from the year of Jiazi, people born in different years can find their natal god within sixty years.

According to Taoist teaching, cultivating one's nature requires devoting oneself to one's destiny and getting rid of distracting thoughts and selfishness in order to live a long and eternal life. Worshipping the natal star has become a custom that has been preserved to this day. Every year on the seventh and eighth days of the first lunar month, Beijingers go to the Yuanchen Hall of Baiyun Temple to "sacrifice the stars", burn incense and perform a rite of worship of the natal star. worship the corresponding natal stars and pray for a safe year, that is, "follow the stars", which means that even if you encounter an unfavorable year, you can turn it into success by receiving the protection of your natal god through prayer. All of the above sixty natal gods enshrined in the temple are brightly colored clay sculptures, and all of them are seated images, including images of animals of the corresponding zodiac signs. Some of the names of the sixty statues are real historical figures, and their images have obvious zodiac signs, such as: Jiazi, Taisui, Jinsui, Jinsui, General, Rat and Peach.

From the content of Taoism about natal gods and sexagenarian people, we can see the relationship between the belief in the zodiac and Taoism. Taoism believes in Lao Tzu's "Tao" and believes that "Tao" is omnipresent and is the beginning of everything. The world consists of It governs everything, and life is no exception. The zodiac signs correspond to the heavenly stems and earthly branches, forming the concept of sixty years, which is a manifestation of the fusion of the zodiac signs and Taoist beliefs. Worship the god of Yuanchen to pray for the blessings and peace of the gods as you wish. From here we see that the zodiac sign has become a dominant factor in people's lives and has become part of life beliefs.

[Spiritsfan]

Do you read the links you provide yourself?
They write the exact opposite.

Insects and elephants!

4. Twelve zodiac signs of each ethnic group

In China, a multi-ethnic country, zodiac signs are not exclusive to the Han Chinese. Many ethnic minorities use twelve zodiac signs to record their years. First, let's look at a comparison chart of the twelve zodiac signs of different ethnic groups.

Comparison chart of the twelve zodiac signs of each ethnic group

Twelve animals of the Yi ethnic group in West Guangxi: dragon, phoenix, horse, ant, human, chicken, dog, pig, bird, cow, tiger, snake Twelve animals of the Yi ethnic group on Mount Ailao: tiger, rabbit, lizard, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, chicken, dog, pig, rat, cow. The twelve beasts of Sichuan, Yunnan, Guizhou and the Yi people: rat, cow, tiger, rabbit, dragon, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, chicken, dog, pig. Hainan Li people The twelve beasts: chicken, dog, pig, rat, cow, insect, rabbit, dragon, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, dog, elephant The twelve beasts of Guangxi Zhuang people: rat, ox, tiger, rabbit, dragon, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, chicken, dog, pig The twelve beasts of Mongolian people: tiger, rabbit, dragon, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, chicken, dog, pig, rat and cow The twelve beasts of the Uyghur people in Xinjiang: rat, cow, tiger, rabbit, fish, snake, horse, sheep, monkey, chicken, dog. , and pig The twelve beasts of the Kirghiz people: Rat, ox, tiger, rabbit, fish, snake, horse, sheep, fox, chicken, dog, pig From the above table, we can see that the twelve zodiac signs. Many ethnic minorities in China, such as the Mongols, Zhuang and some Yi people, are influenced by the Han people and are different from the Han people. However, some ethnic groups have developed some variations by adopting the Han zodiac culture. The Yi people of Mount Ailao use the pangolin to take the place of the dragon in the zodiac row; the Kirghiz in Xinjiang use the fish instead of the dragon in the zodiac row; the zodiac row is used instead of the monkey; the Li ethnic group compatriots in Hainan use the twelve zodiac animals to represent the day, with the chicken used at the beginning and the monkey at the end; oxen instead of cattle and goats instead of sheep. The zodiac sign of Haya is not a pig, but an elephant. From the above changes, it is roughly evident that when different ethnic groups choose zodiac animals, due to different habitats and different species, they choose the closest animals as zodiac animals, which brings certain differences to the zodiac culture. In addition to the variations in the choice of zodiac animals, ethnic minorities also developed their own methods of counting years and dates, and at the same time created many folk customs related to the zodiac.

[Spiritsfan]

And in general, the BaZi calendar has a similar structure to the Mayan calendar. Tzolk’in.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzolk%CA%BCin

Religion, rituals and worship of the sun are very similar. Only there are 20 earthly branches. And 13 heavenly stems. And if you carefully examine the names of the earthly branches in the Mayan calendar, you will see animals there that are in Chinese legends. But the Mayan calendar is longer. And does not have the element of wood. Green color. After all, the Taoist Gods created their body from the components of the environment themselves.

[ren]

Hi Zimon,

Nice post (16). One comment...

We need to becareful when relying on (google) translators. They translate assuming common usage and contex, not within the context of CM. Things like "Zi" are translated to child and "Chou" to ugly.

Translators are getting better at translating to sentences (rather than word for word).
But translations need to make sense within the context of CM. We need to check the trashator.

Ren

[zimon]

Hi Ren, I'm really happy to see you again, it's been a few years since I came to the forum.

I always have to translate my Italian into English with the translator and maybe the translations are not always good.
But as for Zi and Chou, the first one means  also child and the second one  also ugly
"ZI 子 A newborn with legs tied. Seed-child-child-egg..."
" CHOU 丑 ....Ugly- scandalous"
Anyway, please report any inconsistencies or translation errors to me.


Fan of the spirits, of course I read the whole article in the link, the passage I posted is reported in the article among the hypotheses regarding the origins of the twelve branches with their animal names, and in that passage there are possible explanations as to why, for example, WU noon was inserted with the name of a horse.
And now I would like to tell you this thing, I perceive you from your first answers onwards, a little aggressive in the way you communicate with me, why? It seems to me that your speech starts from a position that could be called "narcissistic". Do you have the dog somewhere in your earthly branches...? But if you are a Taoist remember what the master Zhuāngzǐ said, the speech of the sage is similar to the murmur of a stream. Affectionately Zimon

[Spiritsfan]

zimon. I am communicating with you based on facts. You are ignoring facts that are inconvenient for you. I don't know what psychologists call it. And a Taoist is someone who calls things by their proper names. Chinese medicine - statistically it is not visible. There is no fact. But you are doing it. Do it. I have drawn your attention to the fact that you are analyzing BaZi based on modern hieroglyphs - this is also not important to you. There are thousands of people who speak BaZi terms. But they cannot predict the future. Imitation of BaZi knowledge. Or can you predict the future? If yes, I am sincerely ready to read your forecast. If no - do not recall the Taoist masters. Please.

And I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I always forget about the 5 levels of the Taoist soul.

[zimon]

Dear Fan of Spirits, frankly I hate any polemical tone, I answer only for the sake of clarity but also because I am truly amazed by what you tell me.
I find you a bit confused and I hope to clarify your ideas.
1) Doing a humble research on the etymological aspects of the word, here the Bazi sinograms, does not necessarily mean being an expert in reading the graphs. I am just still a student and as such I like to research.
2) In the research I posted there are,among others, references to the Shouwen Dictionary, from the Erya dictionary this one from 300 BC are they modern? I have nothing to defend, nothing that is uncomfortable or convenient for me I don't know, you must have confused me with someone else...
3) On Traditional Chinese Medicine I find you very very confused. After 4 years of studying at the TCM academy here in my country, having trained in a hospital in Beijing, after 25 years of practice, what can I say to someone who says that TCM does not exist?
No, don't worry, you didn't offend me, just disturbed me like when something wants to sting you.
I'll keep your suggestions in mind, for which I thank you. Goodbye

[ren]

Hi Zimon, I have not had the time to go over the whole translation, But  the two changes may be more appropriate.

The rat comes out in the middle of the night and bites the chaos between heaven and earth. "The rat bites the sky and opens it," so the child Zi (is assigned to) is the rat. After the sky is opened, the next step is to create the earth, and "the earth was created by ugliness the earth is created / opens during Chou. The oxen plowing the fields should be the things that created the earth, so ugliness Chou belongs to the ox."

ren 

[zimon]

Hi Ren, as you suggested, I have made some changes and notes to the translation so that it is more understandable.

This excerpt is from the article The origin, arrangement and belief of the zodiac signs,  that collects some hypotexts on the origin and arrangement of animals in terrestrial branches, this passage concerns the relationship between earthly branches and animals from the perspective of the twelve ancient hours of day and night. Zhu Xi, a famous Neo-Confucian scholar of the Song Dynasty, supported this view.

Note: many of the explanations have nothing to do with the meanings of the original pictograms.

“... The zodiac originated from the atmosphere of the ancient cult of animals and the cult of totems.
Ancient Chinese scholars explained the relationship between earthly branches and animals from the perspective of the ancient twelve hours of day and night:

The sky is black and the earth is in chaos. The mouse comes out in the middle of the night and bites into the chaos between heaven and earth. "The mouse bites the sky and opens it", so 子 Zi meaning child (beginning) takes the name of mouse in the earth's branches.

After the sky has opened, the next step is to create the earth and "the earth was created out of ugliness. The oxen that plow the fields are supposed to be the things that created ( given foundation 创) the earth, so CHOU 丑 which took on the meaning of "ugly" (probably because the inscriptions on the oracle bones resemble claws) takes the name of Ox in the terrestrial branches.

The time of Yin is the moment when a person is born. Life leads to death. Nothing can kill people more than a ferocious tiger. Yin also has the meaning of reverence, so 寅  Yin takes the name of tiger in the terrestrial branches.

The Mao hour is the symbol of dawn. The sun should be Li Gua, (east)
Li Gua (east) is like fire and the Yin Yao (Yao maybe brilliant, hence the bright yin) in it is the essence of the sun or moon. (the rabbit was considered a good omen) In this way, 卯 Mao takes on the name of rabbit.

Chen, the hexagram of March, is the season when dragons make rain. Chen is naturally a dragon.

Already the hexagram of April means that at this time the spring grass is lush, which is a good time for snakes, like fish in water. Also, it is morning, and at this time the snake is returning to its cave. So 巳 Si is snake.

At noon, in the afternoon, Yang Qi reaches its extreme and Yin Qi emerges. Horses are animals that gallop and run with their hooves in the air, but occasionally touch the ground. Flying in the air is yang, walking on the ground is yin, and the horse jumps between yin and yang; thus, it becomes the zodiac sign of noon, WU午 means noon and takes the name of Horse in the terrestrial branches.

For sheep, the best time to eat grass is in the afternoon, because it is easy to gain weight. This is the wrong time, so it's not a sheep.
Note: this last sentence makes little sense, I don't know if the problem is in the translation from Chinese that google proposes, however the meaning of Wei (whose character contains the wooden radical and in full: the character "Wei" in the inscriptions on the bones of the oracle resembles the shape of a tree with overlapping branches and leaves. It is said to be an ancient tree with a crown and branches curved upwards, and the leaves have a salty taste.) It includes "not, not yet, unfinished" and can also mean to taste, then eat. Be that as it may, Wei takes the name of sheep in our twelve earth branches.


Shenshi 15:00 to 17:00 is the time when the sun approaches the Western Mountain and the monkeys sing, and the monkeys like to stretch their arms and jump at this time; therefore, the monkey is paired with Shen  申.

You is when the moon appears. The moon belongs to water and corresponds to Kan Gua. The Kan hexagram has yin lines above and below, and the yang line in the center represents the essence of the sun and the golden raven. (The moon in mid-autumn sways and points towards the unified sky.) So, the Unit belongs to the rooster.  You 酉 takes the name Rooster

When night falls, it's Xu's time. (Xu Shi, twilight, At this time the sun has set and it will be dark. The sky and the earth are dimand everything is foggy, so it is called twilight, it goes from 7 to 9 in the evening and  belongs to the Xu hour.) Dogs are the pets that keep watch at night, so Xu 戌is the Dog in the twelve branches of the earth.

Then comes Haishi, the hour of Hai, and heaven and earth are plunged into a state of chaos, just like a fruit wrapped in a core. Everything in the world is covered at night during Haishi hour. Pigs are chaotic creatures that only know how to eat, so pigs have become the zodiac sign of Hai亥 This comment also makes little sense...