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Author Topic: beginning of new day  (Read 3271 times)

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Offline Lisi

beginning of new day
« on: May 14, 2025, 08:34:31 PM »
Dear members,

I would like to know what is your opinion of start of a new day in bazi calculation. Which time is correct, is it 23 h or midnight? I know there are different concepts and schools. What is in your opinion the right, you maybe know from personal expirience? What you know about history of bazi in this point?

I would be glad to hear your point of view.

Regards Lisi

Offline Under10Gods

Re: beginning of new day
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2025, 09:31:03 PM »
Hello.
In Taoist BaZi - astronomical midnight. New Year - on the day of the winter solstice

Online smsek

Re: beginning of new day
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2025, 04:56:57 AM »
In BaZi (Four Pillars of Destiny) calculations, the **start of a new day** is a topic debated among practitioners due to differing interpretations of classical texts and modern adaptations. Here’s a synthesis of perspectives, historical context, and practical considerations:

---

### **1. Traditional View: The Day Begins at 23:00 (11 PM)**
- **Astronomical Basis**: 
  The traditional Chinese calendar divides the day into 12 two-hour periods (時辰 *Shi Chen*), each governed by a zodiac animal. The first Shi Chen, **Zi (子, Rat)**, spans **11 PM to 1 AM**. This marks the transition from the peak of Yin (midnight darkness) to the birth of Yang (emerging light). 
  - *Reasoning*: Ancient Chinese observed midnight (子時 *Zi Shi*) as the "true midnight," but the **day technically begins at 11 PM**, aligning with the **solar term system** and the cyclical flow of Qi.

- **Classical Texts**: 
  Historical manuals like 《淵海子平》(*Yuan Hai Zi Ping*) and 《三命通會》(*San Ming Tong Hui*) root the day’s start in the **Zi hour (11 PM–1 AM)**. This reflects the Daoist concept of Yin-Yang transition, where Qi shifts at 11 PM, not the Gregorian midnight.

- **Practical Application**: 
  For example, a person born at **12:30 AM** would belong to the **next day’s pillars** in BaZi, even though Gregorian calendars label it as the same day until midnight.

---

### **2. Modern Adaptation: Midnight (00:00)**
- **Gregorian Calendar Influence**: 
  Some contemporary practitioners, especially in regions using Western timekeeping, argue for aligning the BaZi day with **midnight (00:00)**. This simplifies conversion for modern birth records. 
  - *Criticism*: Critics argue this divorces BaZi from its foundational tie to **natural Qi cycles** and solar terms.

---

### **3. Historical Context**
- **Ancient China**: 
  Timekeeping relied on sundials, water clocks, and astronomical markers (e.g., the position of the Big Dipper). The **Zi hour (11 PM)** was considered the "seed" of the new day, symbolizing the rebirth of Yang energy (like the winter solstice in the annual cycle).

- **Cultural Shifts**: 
  During the Qing Dynasty and later Republican era, Western timekeeping introduced midnight as a day’s start, causing confusion. However, classical BaZi scholars maintained the **11 PM demarcation** to preserve the system’s integrity.

---

### **4. Practical Considerations**
- **Accuracy in Birth Time**: 
  If a birth time is near midnight or 11 PM, practitioners often calculate charts for **both possibilities** to check which aligns better with the individual’s life events.

- **Time Zones and Daylight Saving**: 
  Modern calculations must adjust for local solar time (True Local Time) and daylight saving, as BaZi is rooted in **solar, not political, time**.

---

### **5. My Perspective**
From experience and study of classical texts: 
- **The day starts at 11 PM** (Zi hour) in authentic BaZi practice. 
- This aligns with the **natural Yin-Yang cycle** and ensures consistency with solar terms and the 12 Shi Chen. 
- However, practitioners should clarify their school’s methodology. Some lineages (e.g., certain Taiwanese or Hong Kong schools) use midnight for simplicity, but this is a modern compromise.

---

### **Conclusion**
Stick with **23:00 (11 PM)** unless your teacher or lineage explicitly follows midnight. The historical and energetic rationale for 11 PM is robust, but always cross-verify with life events when uncertain. The key is consistency within your chosen system. If working with a client, transparently explain your approach to avoid confusion.

For deeper study, explore texts like 《子平真詮》(*Zi Ping Zhen Quan*) or consult masters trained in classical methodologies.

Offline ren

Re: beginning of new day
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2025, 08:40:03 AM »
Hi Lisi,

This question has been covered previously on the forum. A search on past topics will list those topics.

Zi hour branch covers 11:00pm to 1:00am.
If born between 11:00pm and 12:00pm, the day of birth is the min-night day. [born 5/14/25 Zi hour]
If born between 00:00am and 1:00am, the day of birth is morning day. [born 5/15/25 Zi hour]

ren

Offline Under10Gods

Re: beginning of new day
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2025, 08:53:24 AM »
Dear members,

I would like to know what is your opinion of start of a new day in bazi calculation. Which time is correct, is it 23 h or midnight? I know there are different concepts and schools. What is in your opinion the right, you maybe know from personal expirience? What you know about history of bazi in this point?

I would be glad to hear your point of view.

Regards Lisi

In fact, you are now turning over the foundation of the entire invented Chinese history. What devices measured time three thousand years ago? With an accuracy of fractions of a second? Over the course of years?

And since few people read IT news. AI - often makes up information. Gives out in answers what is not there. Because the architecture of the AI ​​response formation itself is not responsible for the result. Remember this :).

My arguments are a nightmare for historians and biologists :). Like man developed through evolution. First stones, sticks - then steam engines. But then a system like BaZi could not have such an age. Because its main component is precise time. And precise time is precise navigation, for those who are not in the know. And having such chronographic and astronomical knowledge - ancient China should have been like the British Empire in the era of its colonial peak. But none of this exists. It remains to find out who is lying and where.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 09:05:43 AM by Under10Gods »

Offline ren

Re: beginning of new day
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2025, 03:31:48 PM »
Quote
If born between 11:00pm and 12:00pm, the day of birth is the min-night day. [born 5/14/25 Zi hour]

Technically, the above is wrong...

It should state:
If born between 11:00pm and 11:59.99pm, the day of birth is the min-night day. [born 5/14/25 Zi hour]

11:00pm to 12:00pm take you until 12:00pm noon, into the next day.

ren