Why Doesn't The Bazi Seasons Change For People Born In The Southern Hemisphere?

[Chat time]

Tientai post too deep for me 

I'm more inclined to believe North and South shared the same month pillar.
My point of explanation is that gregorian calendar moved 11 days forward in 1582 Oct with 5th till 14th eliminated.
That's to accommodate the earth spinning not exactly 24 hours a day and over time built up of time forward via the Julian calendar.

http://m.wannianli.fkcha.com/year_1582_month_10.html ( You can see here that 11 days is lost but our chinese calendar continued without interruption.

I'm not a great fan of Joey Yap but 1 thing he point out is correct mentioned by Tientai.

"BaZi is based on the constellations (which are the same whether you are in the Northern or Southern hemisphere), NOT 'climate' of the country."

It's more about earth and other planet position on a given time revolving around sun. It's like western horoscope.
If one believe that the earth temperature has a real effect on bazi, then one should really thought that Water is really water and metal is a real chunk of metal.

I use to believe about the winter theory not so long ago because I was taught that way but after comparing many bazi I realized that 調侯用神 is recommending Bing fire and Gui water way higher percentage than Ji earth or Mao wood. People born in all kinds of element and months but useful gods being bias on 2 HS is not really logical to me. I don't see a big group of people doing well in specifically water/fire years or months. It's better to stick to Ten Gods. Xin Hai day born in Ren Zi month of course output too strong but due to winter must use fire. Already weak metal still use DO/7K, want him to die?

Monk mentioned about changing element to taste and immediately I saw his point. Don't need to drag me through history lesson or example. 1 simple question that don't need to be answered and it was self explanatory.

[TenVirtues]

Most modern practitioners of CM have this dilemma, but if you know the basis of BaZi and CM in general. Then the conclusion is actually quite simple.
BaZi is based on Ancient Chinese Astrological system. Most documented ancient horoscopes up until Qing dynasty incorporated Astrology as well as 八字 concepts.
From the 八字 the positions of the visible planets in the 28 Chinese Constellation and the 12 zodiac can be calculated.
Once celestial positions are calculated including rahu ketu, The rulership of the 42 神煞 is further calculated afterwards, for example;
天权，天印，天刑，天暗，天福，局主 etc. Based on your 八字 天权 could be ruled by Jupiter,Venus,Rahu,Ketu etc.
What i am trying to point to is that 八字 is based on Constellation Astrology aka Sidereal Astrology or we can call Chinese Sidereal Astrology.

Surprisingly the fixed star used to mark the position of Vedic and Chinese Astrology is  Spica. The Indians use Lahiri Ayanamsa aka Chitra Paksha.
Chitra Nakshatra(Constellation) is what the Indians use to measure the sidereal position of the zodiac. Chitra Constellation is where the star of Spica resides.
Spica is also the first contellation of the Chinese Zodiac and also used to find the position of the Chinese Zodiac.

So changing the 八字 based on Hemisphere definitely not applicable because once the month changes the position of the planets changes.
Which would give incorrect readings based on incorrect planetary placements.
Just my 2 cents.
TenVirftues

[Chat time]

Just my 2 cents.
TenVirftues

Your 2 cents is more than 20 cents to me. A lot of deep knowledge people here... or maybe I too shallow... LOLzzz
I have no idea what's Lahiri Ayanamsa is but I get your point. Googling the word Spica now...

[Chat time]

Spica in google gives me all the cute Korea gals 

[Tientai ✝️]

My point of explanation is that gregorian calendar moved 11 days forward in 1582 Oct with 5th till 14th eliminated.

.. I hope don't confuse with contnusity of  sexagenery  cycle of heavenly stems and earthly Branches. . even if this elimination of 11 days happened just for correction of lunar calendar...!!
....
2 cents is ok ..😊😊
Tientai

[TenVirtues]

Hi All,
Wanted to explain more about Spica. Spica is a fixed star used by both the Chinese and The Indians to calculate back the precession of the equinoxes.
The Chinese consider Spica as 0 degrees while the Indians look for Spica and use the opposite point which is Ashwini or the First Constellation of Aries as the starting point. Both measure Spica as the determining degree.

Interestingly enough the fixed star of Spica is considered the most benefic star in  Chinese, Vedic, And Western Astrology.
It symbolizes abundance and great power. Spica represents the first Chinese Constellation which is ruled by a God who can transfix serpents with his gaze.
Chitra Nakshatra is known as the bright shiny one, many modern movie stars have this star prominent in their chart.
Spica in Western Fixed Star Astrology is known as the Luckiest Star, any planet or cusps house degrees in Spica causes powerful Luck and Fame.
Justin Bieber has his Moon conjunct Spica in 0 degrees of Aries Vedic Astrology.
Spica is called the one that stands out and it sure stands out in many ways.

[PdStelle]

Very interesting,  TenVirtues... thank you! 

[NewMan]

Indonesia is consider in the Southern Hemisphere and have over 200 million population. So far how is Jlim and other bazi master reading on Indonesian?

[JLim (Darma W)]

My own experience in Reply #20

TenVirtues, deep knowledge on planets and constellations! 

[TenVirtues]

Hi All Happy New Years,
Thank you Jlim need to learn more Iching SixLine from you. That is another great part of BaZi.
Appreciate you providing a platform free of trolls and hypocrites.
All the best to all,
TenVirtues

[J27945]

There was a whole thing with a change in the calendar where they had problems with a specific Emperor and some scientists(well, monks really, but in that case we can say it was scientists) from the western world few centuries ago. The question came up to who can calculate the solstice more accurately and they did better... I don't remember the whole story, shouldn't be difficult to find. But the day is continues, that is shared with the moon calendar as well, but the months are different.

Considering in his QMDj/JMDJ book Jack Chiu says similar change was made in Tang Dynasty I guess that was the timeframe.
After the calendar change now they reflect the movement of the Sun in the Solar Calendar, I have searched a lot never found out how it was calculated before.
It is one of the reasons people say Chai Bu count is more accurate, as the whole base is different now when it comes to the months. But more on that in that post in that topic.

So in that sense, while the day 60 jia/zi is a stream that goes back very very far, the months in the way we view them today aren't very old. Tang Dynasty was 618–907(still old of course, but in comparison with the day - very recent).

Anyway, that same reasoning we can use for using Chinese time everywhere. If we use local time(solar or not), it suggest we are making changes in very old and very well established system, no matter if it is about the months or not. 

Thumbs Up. . Well Said

[Gmuli]

All this is just a waste of time...

Fingers are not even in lengths. Some of us might be more difficult to be educated than others.
It's a forum and we are writing for the general public to read, nothing is wasted here.
The more we discuss about this topic, it will let the readers decide whether which beliefs system they choose fits them best.

Yea, you are right, was just a bad day I guess, but my problem was that no one seems to be talking about the actual problem we have. Heluos article is going in depth how the orbit of the Sun is related to the 12 seasonal hexagrams... But that is so obvious I didn't even want to comment on it, that are SEASONAL hexagrams, they are connected to the season, not to the Suns longitude.

Anyway, my point is, if no one wants to comment on that part, its better to move on. Just posting unrelated stuff time and time again make it difficult to go in the topic. Then again if no one cares about that(and that is perfectly fine) then just let it go. At this point I just don't know what more to say, all the reasons I think it should be inverted are still unanswered.

[Tientai ✝️]

Dear @Gmuli  .. hi
Am glad to discuss with you on this subject  ...

Just posting unrelated stuff time and time again make it difficult to go in the topic. Then again if no one cares about that(and that is perfectly fine) then just let it go. At this point I just don't know what more to say, all the reasons I think it should be inverted are still unanswered.

Perhaps you mean as "unrelated" .. my effort to answer to this Dilemma by making divination with Tai Xuan Jing art of casting ..
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=623.msg3758#msg3758
We are here on this forum to sharpen our understanding on divination arts ..
The reason on using this kind of tools (Tai xuan, Liuyao,  ling c'hi ching, Bazi. .etc ) is obviously don't trust our logic..
Many answers are taken with real inspiration .. !!. (personally I say it happens on tossing coins or yarrow stalk )..
Is different with positive Aristotelian western logic...
Chinese are different on this because use as their basis concepts of yin yang , 5 elements and so many philosophical meanings that use them to judge anything.

Wanting to add on this my experience when I was studying in a Chinese hospital... Traditional Chinese Medicine.
I had the luck to have as a teacher a Veteran old lady Doctor ... she made every day 70 or more successful therapies every day .. when asked her how this happened .. she always said : I don't know. . Just follow the changes that Qi flows .. !!! (70 therapies are for my western mind 70 inspirations)..
That is the difference with western logic .. !!
.. surely I don't want to say what is better .. this is up to anyone to answer ... !!
I agree we must continue to talk about on this topic ...

Thanks you came back ☺☺☺

Tientai

[Gmuli]

Dear @Gmuli  .. hi
Am glad to discuss with you on this subject  ...

Just posting unrelated stuff time and time again make it difficult to go in the topic. Then again if no one cares about that(and that is perfectly fine) then just let it go. At this point I just don't know what more to say, all the reasons I think it should be inverted are still unanswered.

Perhaps you mean as "unrelated" .. my effort to answer to this Dilemma by making divination with Tai Xuan Jing art of casting ..
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=623.msg3758#msg3758
We are here on this forum to sharpen our understanding on divination arts ..
The reason on using this kind of tools (Tai xuan, Liuyao,  ling c'hi ching, Bazi. .etc ) is obviously don't trust our logic..
Many answers are taken with real inspiration .. !!. (personally I say it happens on tossing coins or yarrow stalk )..
Is different with positive Aristotelian western logic...
Chinese are different on this because use as their basis concepts of yin yang , 5 elements and so many philosophical meanings that use them to judge anything.

Wanting to add on this my experience when I was studying in a Chinese hospital... Traditional Chinese Medicine.
I had the luck to have as a teacher a Veteran old lady Doctor ... she made every day 70 or more successful therapies every day .. when asked her how this happened .. she always said : I don't know. . Just follow the changes that Qi flows .. !!! (70 therapies are for my western mind 70 inspirations)..
That is the difference with western logic .. !!
.. surely I don't want to say what is better .. this is up to anyone to answer ... !!
I agree we must continue to talk about on this topic ...

Thanks you came back ☺☺☺

Tientai

Hi. : )
Thank you.
Yea, I think I'm trying too. i started working with QMDJ lately and in there it seems very, very clear the chart to look at is without time adjustment. However, that makes it even more unclear, why some systems seem to be so clearly using it while others doesn't seem to...

I do agree, western logic just isn't the tool here, but I still seem to be missing what to replace it.

Wanting to add on this my experience when I was studying in a Chinese hospital... Traditional Chinese Medicine.
I had the luck to have as a teacher a Veteran old lady Doctor ... she made every day 70 or more successful therapies every day .. when asked her how this happened .. she always said : I don't know. . Just follow the changes that Qi flows .. !!! (70 therapies are for my western mind 70 inspirations)..
That is the difference with western logic .. !!
.. surely I don't want to say what is better .. this is up to anyone to answer ... !!
I agree we must continue to talk about on this topic ...

This is very interesting and yea, I think it may have an answer in there. Maybe if we don't question just use whatever seems to work best, its the nicest approach.

The example - I would read that as we need to assign each place its order.  So we again get to the same problem that reading seems to fit to what we approach it with.


In western schools Tarot is easier, it just shows the images in our fields. That images if strong enough will manifest. But there isn't connection to any calendar, when I thought about that I always assume that is why eastern systems can be so accurate with time, coz they have connection to the calendar.

Overall, its messy and I think I'm missing something, hopefully will clear out with time.

 I didn't mean specifically anyone with the "unrelated stuff", I just meant that I can't find answer to what I was actually asking, so far.

[Tientai ✝️]

By the way ..
Tai Xuan Jing and Ling ChI Jing  ... not using any calendar ..!!!
Agree as Tarot in Westerners ...
Only Tai Xuan Jing has its own calendar but don't  influence the situation of casting..
..