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Author Topic: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching  (Read 9280 times)

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Offline Massiecore

How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« on: March 27, 2019, 12:51:01 PM »
Hello Everybody,


I had a question that I'm asking myself for a while ..
Normally we ask the Yi ching to clarify a doubt or to understand better a dynamic.
Sometimes for example I ask about doing things or meeting people.

Im lastly meeting a girl although I'm really not that interested in her. I ask sometimes the Yi ching " what will it happen if I will not meet her" and the yi ching answer me with a  negative response, in the sense that would bring me misfortune to do not meeting her. So I'm confused.

What should be the attitude in this situations? Should be always of taking a decision, the personal discernement to that we should delegate our choiche and not the last word on the i ching?!
I would appreciate so much to understand your point of view because sometimes I really get confused about it.
 And would be great to can
 confront me with you about it.

In anyway thank You hope to hear you soon. Cheers
Massimiliano

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2019, 05:05:34 PM »
Im lastly meeting a girl although I'm really not that interested in her. I ask sometimes the Yi ching " what will it happen if I will not meet her" and the yi ching answer me with a  negative response, in the sense that would bring me misfortune to do not meeting her. So I'm confused.
The question is not well structured for a divination method like Liu Yao (Six Lines).  "What will happen" does not sound specific enough, and I think it's too open-ended.

"if I will not meet her" this sounds okay, though.  IN this case you are NOT interested in her.  Just like earlier this month, I got a female client who asked me when a much older guy would stop pursuing her.  It's a rather interesting question, because usually I get more relationship questions where the querent DESIRES the other party.  It's even more interesting, because this female client is underaged by any standard in the world :D

Many people find Liu Yao appealing for answering queries about relationship.  Especially in the initial stage of (non-)relationship, because asking the birth hour (or sometimes even birth date) for a birth chart reading would throw the other person off.

OK I will continue later... or another member may be able to chip in to help.
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Offline Tientai ✝️

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2019, 06:02:04 PM »
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« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:07:58 PM by Tientai »

Gmuli

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2019, 10:46:51 PM »
I think there was a rule about that. "If you don't have doubts don't ask"
We try to keep it up, as otherwise the whole process will become challenging.

While there was another rule, although form western practitioners. Never ask if you aren't willing to follow up on what you read. If you won't change your mind no reason to ask. Basically its the same one though.
No doubts - don't ask.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 10:51:04 PM by Gmuli »

Offline Elros

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2019, 12:14:09 AM »
I think there was a rule about that. "If you don't have doubts don't ask"
We try to keep it up, as otherwise the whole process will become challenging.

While there was another rule, although form western practitioners. Never ask if you aren't willing to follow up on what you read. If you won't change your mind no reason to ask. Basically its the same one though.
No doubts - don't ask.

Hey @Gmuli ,

This is interesting to read, and thanks for sharing. I've been doing one reading every morning asking "Tell me about my day today." and then checking the resulting hexagram(s) with websites to find the meanings. Been doing it for 2 weeks. So far it's been fairly accurate and I got very good advice.

However, based on what you just wrote, seems like it's not a good practice to follow (daily divination). Is my way of divining broad enough that it's ok to do daily, or should I stop doing it and only save divination for times when I urgently need it?

Best,
Elros

Offline PdStelle

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2019, 10:42:47 AM »
Hi Elros, Massie, all,

You should divine on important matters only, and when a decision is required (not out of curiosity, for example)

Gmuli

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2019, 11:21:25 AM »
Hi.
This rule for me is aimed at a specific situation when we are absolutely sure some event or decision will go in specific way. So there is no doubt.

Asking about our day, if we are sure how the day will go, that usually means we are determined to make it go that way. As in most other cases people aren't really sure how a day will go. That are rare situations, but in that specific state asking the system will have its dangers.
In most cases we won't be sure how our day will go, so asking about it doesn't fall into that rule in my point of view.

However, what problems may come up if we ask when we are sure of the answer.

It may change the dynamic with the system, as the answer that will come from it doesn't have anywhere to go, as we may not be open enough to receive it.
Much like asking about a meeting you don't want to go to. If you aren't prepared to go, then asking about it will put the system in a role where it passively makes you "do" stuff you don't want to do, and that changes the dynamic in a way we may not enjoy in the long run.

If you don't have doubt in the right answer reading it objectively will be very difficult.
Doubt suggest there is at least some parts of us open to read any possible answer. If we are absolutely sure about specific outcome there is good chance we will read it in a way to support that outcome as well.
People have doubts how their day will go, so its all good. In most questions there is doubt. Asking a lot is good way to learn, although has its dangers as well.

In long term life questions, short term challenges may seem like the system isn't supporting us in difficult long term decision.
 Sometimes we choose a long road ahead that we are sure of. Reading may show next few weeks or months are challenging. It doesn't mean it isn't worth doing the long term path.
In my view that is very different then tarot. Tarot will give the supporting answer if the long term thing is worth it, (depending on the spread as there may just not be a space to do it). Either that or I'm asking Yi jing in a way that it gives a short term questions, haven't cleared that out yet enough I suppose.


Should we avoid asking questions that aren't important to us... I think this is a lot messier then it seems.  I get both approaches, people that ask for everything to learn the mechanics of the system(try to go deeper) and people that ask only for important things to not mess up their relation with the system(keep it fresh).

If you aren't sure what approach is for you, it will clear out with time.

Back on the doubt...
In this specific case Massiecore seems sure about the situation, yet asking if its beneficial to not meet her brings a lot of issues, as decision is already clear . And that is a dangerous path to follow as we are painting on a space that is already painted upon...



Offline Elros

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2019, 07:08:37 PM »
@PdStelle @Gmuli Thanks for offering your perspectives! And Gmuli, thanks also for outlining why it's not good to do divination for questions you're sure about. I really like how you structured your reasoning.

Will probably need to tone down my daily divinations despite being pretty accurate/insightful thus far. What are the rare situations that this can become dangerous? No need to respond if it's too many to list out. Just curious.

Also, if you don't mind explaining, what's the difference between doing a daily divination vs. doing a daily destiny-read (e.g., Bazi day pillar or ZWDS daily Dou Jun)? And does your response about daily divination also apply to doing daily destiny-reading (i.e., you can, but there's no real need to do daily or even monthly bazi reads)?

Gmuli

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2019, 09:34:33 PM »
@PdStelle @Gmuli Thanks for offering your perspectives! And Gmuli, thanks also for outlining why it's not good to do divination for questions you're sure about. I really like how you structured your reasoning.

Will probably need to tone down my daily divinations despite being pretty accurate/insightful thus far. What are the rare situations that this can become dangerous? No need to respond if it's too many to list out. Just curious.

Also, if you don't mind explaining, what's the difference between doing a daily divination vs. doing a daily destiny-read (e.g., Bazi day pillar or ZWDS daily Dou Jun)? And does your response about daily divination also apply to doing daily destiny-reading (i.e., you can, but there's no real need to do daily or even monthly bazi reads)?

From what I know in some of the dynasties centuries back, they were asking 20-30 questions for each situation, trying to map it out from all different points of view.. Each questions would change some variable in it, until all can be followed and figured out. Sometimes I do that as well, although rarely, since its not like I have wars to decide or something like that...

Even so, I have to mention that I do ask a lot...  I'm also saving most of it and reviewing when there is a doubt in a specific rule.

Why asking so much... There are a few reasons for that... Mostly it is to learn the mechanic of how the system works. As good information for the rules and mechanics seems much more difficult to come by then most western systems, it seems it falls to us to figure it out from the ground up. And if we want to do that we need to have as many examples and rules as a whole schools with many decades of gathering examples otherwise would have... And that requires a lot of questions. Todays world with www and everything else provides enough material...

The dangers connected to it... Well, there are a lot in my view. Some more then others. Will list a few.

It can make our relations to the system mechanical.
Initially, most people easily form a relation to the system as communication with something sacred and if that is kept alive reading the answers is easier.
If we ask very often that may be harder to keep alive,  it is up to us to figure out how and if we want it to be there.
In my experience even if we ask a lot that comes back when the questions are important enough.


The more emotionally charged the question is, the easier it is to read. That is lost in non important questions and that can give the impression system doesn't work.
A lot of our attention/energy is already in the situation, thinking about it, living through it etc. So then the lines are very easy to read, we just look at it and it falls into what we already know.
Asking situations that are everyday casual events doesn't have that, so there is usually some effort to see the situation in depth, as we have been doing many of those mechanically. So its a way of rethinking events that we are very familiar with, can be useful, but also much harder to read.

There are a few others...
Can make the system addictive for example. Or can mess up our individual choices. Or it may become tempting to transfer the responsibility of our decisions to the system and forget all these are our decisions as far as the whole world around us is concerned, and it will hold us responsible for them, even if we do not.
However, much of that can happen if we ask only for important events as well not to mention to some degree it can show up in many other things from religions to scientific discoveries.

Overall, asking for everything we can think of(more or less) is risky. I am doing it, though, and asking about each day is not that much in comparison...

In my view the main problem if we ask too much is that there is a spark in it all that may be lost. However, if we know what we are doing it will come back when we need it again.
The system will keep working with or without it.

Asking about each day..  I can think of some potential problems with that, most of them can be solved if you don't read the daily hexagram until the end of the day when you are already aware of the events. In any case I did ask like that everyday for a really long time and I'm happy I did. So you will sort it out with time, if you feel its helpful for connecting to the system you shouldn't stop in my view. Whatever problems may arise will solve with time.

BaZi or similar system in my view should be the same rules, but I haven't been focusing on BaZi as much lately and even less on ZWDS , so probably shouldn't comment on it in depth.
However for QMDj for example, I wouldn't ask a lot. As I don't know enough about the system for that to be beneficial, it will just push away if I do at this point. Have to find the right timing/knowledge/experience for it to be beneficial and not exhausting. : )

All is just my point of view of course.

Offline Elros

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2019, 11:00:22 PM »
@Gmuli thanks for laying out your thoughts so comprehensively! Makes sense, and wish I could give karma in this forum for the post. But wow, 20-30 questions per situation is intense...

Gmuli

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 11:15:32 PM »
@Gmuli thanks for laying out your thoughts so comprehensively! Makes sense, and wish I could give karma in this forum for the post. But wow, 20-30 questions per situation is intense...

It was in a book some time ago, I'm not sure its true. I think it was suppose to be some parts of Han dynasty.
But I can imagine it working, if the situation is important enough...
Although they had QMDJ and stuff, and we can't ask multiple times there, so maybe it was just legend or something. But it is a lot, yea. : )

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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2019, 04:14:41 PM »
@Gmuli thanks for laying out your thoughts so comprehensively! Makes sense, and wish I could give karma in this forum for the post. But wow, 20-30 questions per situation is intense...
Saying thanks just like what you have done is a more direct way of appreciation, better than a mere click to add karma points!  And I want to say thanks too to him!
In my experience even if we ask a lot that comes back when the questions are important enough.
Indeed, if we ask every day, are you sure the questions important enough?  I would doubt that would be the case.

And I agree:
You should divine on important matters only, and when a decision is required (not out of curiosity, for example)
This also means that when we ask every day, the questions may arise mainly out of curiosity instead of importance.
Discover your destiny and make your important decisions at any given time 'n situation

Offline Massiecore

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2019, 08:41:21 PM »
Im lastly meeting a girl although I'm really not that interested in her. I ask sometimes the Yi ching " what will it happen if I will not meet her" and the yi ching answer me with a  negative response, in the sense that would bring me misfortune to do not meeting her. So I'm confused.
The question is not well structured for a divination method like Liu Yao (Six Lines).  "What will happen" does not sound specific enough, and I think it's too open-ended.

"if I will not meet her" this sounds okay, though.  IN this case you are NOT interested in her.  Just like earlier this month, I got a female client who asked me when a much older guy would stop pursuing her.  It's a rather interesting question, because usually I get more relationship questions where the querent DESIRES the other party.  It's even more interesting, because this female client is underaged by any standard in the world :D

Many people find Liu Yao appealing for answering queries about relationship.  Especially in the initial stage of (non-)relationship, because asking the birth hour (or sometimes even birth date) for a birth chart reading would throw the other person off.

OK I will continue later... or another member may be able to chip in to help.


Thank You very much for the answer Jlim. It tooks me a while but finally I've found the time.

Well ok, so the question should be more in the sense of something one desire that something that we would like to avoid.
Ok fair enough, I will consider in the future this essential and prospective when formuling my questions from now on.

Thank You

Offline Massiecore

Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2019, 08:50:06 PM »
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The answer is the same .. but it depends how you see the world.
If want to see just as looking half filling  water in a glass it's ok ...at least you have an evident (the water)
But if you want to see the life just as looking the half empty space in the glass it's ok too.. but this way you chose in inconvenient to what we normally have accustomed in doing .

let's try an example

One says to another :
1.Are you fine ?
2. Are you not fine ?

Others respond :
1. I am just fine
2. I am just fine .. but the respond in  six lines is  as " I am no not fine !!  " (means ..just fine )
.......
We must not confuse ourselves ... the negative response is only in our minds .. !!
The Divinity will respond but we must be open minded to understand the meaning....
...


Thanks for the answer @Tientai .
So if I understood it correctly, means that if I'm asking something, with a negative question, I can expect an answer from the Yi ching with a kind of negative answer. So I might be open to get the point of its answering, in regard of the negative way I asked the question....

I guess to have understand although I don't know if now by the explanation I was understandable XD :D


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Re: How should I stand in front of the Yi ching
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2019, 07:48:15 AM »
Hi all,
The more emotionally charged the question is, the easier it is to read. That is lost in non important questions and that can give the impression system doesn't work.
A lot of our attention/energy is already in the situation, thinking about it, living through it etc. So then the lines are very easy to read, we just look at it and it falls into what we already know.
Asking situations that are everyday casual events doesn't have that, so there is usually some effort to see the situation in depth, as we have been doing many of those mechanically. So its a way of rethinking events that we are very familiar with, can be useful, but also much harder to read.
I agree with the view in italic, but I would like to add to it: during the tossing of coins in Liu Yao, it's important that the querent keeps an empty mind.  This is done so that there is objectivity in the resulting hexagram.  It's good that the querent only asks an important question for him/her, but s/he should not bring their subjectivity into the hexagram. After all, the querent has already brought their attention/energy in the situation that they want to ask about. 

This principle is also valid for other methods of acquiring the hexagram, be it the traditional method of using yarrow sticks, tortoise shells, calling out numbers between 1-100, using I Ching hexagram cards etc.
Discover your destiny and make your important decisions at any given time 'n situation