Proper setting (Yong Shen)

[andponomarev]

Hey,

Guys, I'd like to be enlightened regarding the matter element used in case studies. For instance, it's quite easy to understand that "Wealth/Asset" line is used when divinating for money/profit questions, or "Officer" line for job/career questions. But what would be my proper setting (in terms of lines I have to look at) for such a question, for example: Will I be able to make a haircut tomorrow at 10AM? Won't there be any obstacles? I have no idea, really. What would haircut refer to? Object line? Wealth/Asset line? What do you think? Thanks.

[Gmuli]

"matter element" means you are using AKs terminology...
If you use the Index too, lately I just set the index. Like the strength of the line shows if you can make it or not, that is Prosperity Index above 0 means you will make it, below 0 means you won't on the Other Line.

However, the index is more complex then it seems, there is info in the facebook group(its free group there).

[andponomarev]

Thanks for the reply. Well, yeah, I use index, but the question is more about lines at the moment. You see, if I ask about "Health", "Wealth", "Job", "Love", "Pregnancy" - that is pretty much simple, as I know where to look for, I described that above. But I don't know the setting for cases that don't fit in these categories. For instance, "Will I go to a shop tomorrow"? Or, like previously, "Will I make a haircut"?

The thing is it's possible that I will become sick, and won't be able to go. Or I won't be able to wake up early, and just miss the time, or something else might happen, and become an obstacle. And I just don't know what is a proper setting for such cases. Should I always use "Other" line in such cases, or the algorightm is more complicated?

[Gmuli]

Waaait...
Will I go to the shop tomorrow?
While logically the important factor may need to be the Self line combined with some smart Setting, I'm not sure I get the question. Isn't that your decision(going to the shop or not)?

[andponomarev]

Well, like I wrote above:

The thing is it's possible that I will become sick, and won't be able to go. Or I won't be able to wake up early, and just miss the time, or something else might happen, and become an obstacle.

You might rephrase it as "Will there be any obstacles that might prevent me from doing that". I could get sick, wake up late, etc.

[The-Monk]

The proper "setting" as you say (that AK proposes for use), is...

None of them will be accurate or work. Because we are not the ones asking the questions. You are.

So the only correct "setting" that is appropriate, is after you have the question up and ready. Not before.

And as you have not fully formed the question at hand, no one can tell you what is the correct "Matter" Element or "Setting".

[andponomarev]

So the only correct "setting" that is appropriate, is after you have the question up and ready. Not before.
And as you have not fully formed the question at hand, no one can tell you what is the correct "Matter" Element or "Setting".

We all know that if we're divinating about money or spouse, we're looking for the "Wealth" line. We're looking for the "Officer" line when divinating for the carrer. I have formed my question, and my setting is the "Object" line, you can see my divination here:

https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=1303.0

I just wonder if I'm not mistaking here, as it would be wrong to look for the "Officer" line as the matter element when asking for the business, you see? But I just don't know my matter element for the "haircut" divination that I made.

[callmenewbie]

No offending to anyone. If a person doesn’t understand the setting. I think better learn with humble minds. This is actually very logical technique. If the setting is not done before divination, once the hexagram is generated, everything will be back to square. Like this question, now before a hexagram is generated, there are already having so much of Argument. Some say focus line A, some say focus line b, some say focus line c. Bla bla bla. Even the person who asking the question are also in doubt. In his mind, he may think to read line a and line b. So what shall expect to focus when hexagram is generated? That is AK idea, if reading involves guess. It will always not consistent. If we can’t decide what to focus before, how possible we are guaranteed what to focus after? If we have no idea what is e=mc2 before, how can we understand this is the equation is actually taking about energy and mass? That is the setting idea that AK is revealed. It is actually a very valuable secret. That is what I learned. Just sharing my view. If no one agree this, that's fine. Hopefully will not create any conflict here.

[Gmuli]

No offending to anyone. If a person doesn’t understand the setting. I think better learn with humble minds. This is actually very logical technique. If the setting is not done before divination, once the hexagram is generated, everything will be back to square. Like this question, now before a hexagram is generated, there are already having so much of Argument. Some say focus line A, some say focus line b, some say focus line c. Bla bla bla. Even the person who asking the question are also in doubt. In his mind, he may think to read line a and line b. So what shall expect to focus when hexagram is generated? That is AK idea, if reading involves guess. It will always not consistent. If we can’t decide what to focus before, how possible we are guaranteed what to focus after? If we have no idea what is e=mc2 before, how can we understand this is the equation is actually taking about energy and mass? That is the setting idea that AK is revealed. It is actually a very valuable secret. That is what I learned. Just sharing my view. If no one agree this, that's fine. Hopefully will not create any conflict here.

I agree, yet...
I think one of our problems is that we don't fully understand what a setting is.That includes people in the group as well.
We know it takes time to become stable, we know all are doing it with the coins anyway, at the same time we also know it seems connected from one site with habit, from another with how we think about it...

But is it a skill?Is it a way we think about the question?What are the rules to make setting?
But even then we will get into the limitations of the systems that we look so much at, lately.

From what Puppylove used long time ago and what Jack Chiu used there seems to be the idea that we can't set anything on the Self or Other line either. There are other requirements and I have seen that in practice as well.

That suggests its not only how we are thinking about it, or what we are used to. There is a lot going on beyond that.

Overall, I fully agree with what you are saying,yet there are many problems with Setting as well. And while we look in some of them in the group there are more.

[callmenewbie]

Thanks for the kind response. Setting is actually a very broad idea and it meant to be flexible, yet, it still has rules to follow. The rules is written in AK book. https://www.amazon.com/dp/9671938701
Which AK called the hexagram principle. We follow the rules in this hexagram principle to do the setting.

“Setting” is a unique concept from AK. I've learned with few masters before AK. And none of any masters I've met mentioned anything close to this idea. So, it won't be a surprise that puppy love and jack Chiu don't understand this concept.

As explained, “Setting” works with proper rules so that it can be flexible. So, it can be considered as a skill. The skill is to learn not to set something that will break the rules.

Overall, setting need to set with logical rules. For example, if we want to check about income, it makes no sense to set sibling as income. This kind of setting has break the rules and it will not work. But when we ask about partnership business. Sibling can mean partner and expenses. At this time, the setting has to be logically set should it mean expenses or partnership?

AK’s idea is actually very profound and the content inside his book is probably only 30% or lesser comparing to the actual content of his course. That is why many having difficulty in learning his method when the course is not taken. Many not written in his book. His idea is already beyond many current liu yao concepts. I don't mean to promote his course. I receive no commission from him. But that is actually how things work. Just sharing.

Hope my two cents contributes some direction of learning.

[Gmuli]

As explained, “Setting” works with proper rules so that it can be flexible. So, it can be considered as a skill. The skill is to learn not to set something that will break the rules.

Aha, ok, so we can say its skill. But not skill to be able to set in places that doesn't fit(in that example to set Asset images on top of Sibling), but skill to know where to set it. That makes sense, thanks.  : )

About the course, yea its awesome the whole approach to the system is awesome, can't wait for the next level. It seems it may be here soon after the book.

I don't mean to promote his course.

I'm happy to promote it, as the info in there is awesome. And I don't care how it looks, somewhere along the way it seems more important to do the right thing then care how it looks. If it gets deleted it gets deleted. As saying its good is the right thing to do, in relation to the material in there and material in other places, I still do it. : )

[firelink]

"matter element" means you are using AKs terminology...
If you use the Index too, lately I just set the index. Like the strength of the line shows if you can make it or not, that is Prosperity Index above 0 means you will make it, below 0 means you won't on the Other Line.

However, the index is more complex then it seems, there is info in the facebook group(its free group there).

If index indicate the fact that thing will come or not to fruition , why is it necessary to have the matter element ?

Imagine someone ask about something related to wealth or a potential girlfriend

if the hexagram move and turn to be god (self on wealth line, object line turn into children line ) but the index (that is calculated according the energy level according to the date and month ) show that both are below zero ,  how do you interpret it then ?

[Gmuli]

"matter element" means you are using AKs terminology...
If you use the Index too, lately I just set the index. Like the strength of the line shows if you can make it or not, that is Prosperity Index above 0 means you will make it, below 0 means you won't on the Other Line.

However, the index is more complex then it seems, there is info in the facebook group(its free group there).

If index indicate the fact that thing will come or not to fruition , why is it necessary to have the matter element ?

Imagine someone ask about something related to wealth or a potential girlfriend

if the hexagram move and turn to be god (self on wealth line, object line turn into children line ) but the index (that is calculated according the energy level according to the date and month ) show that both are below zero ,  how do you interpret it then ?

Well... Technically all this is in the open. Yet I'm starting to think maybe the idea of having some filtering of who will dig deeply enough in the material to figure it out is actually on purpose.

Yet I'm tired of guessing what is why, so the only correct way to continue is to step aside. Have members here that are aware of more of AK system, can always ask them. What I knew before is almost all in the open I think and what I know since then is so related to Ak system, that no point of me going to it. There are courses and people that know more of it that can handle any of that.

As far as my role go, I will step aside. No matter how we view it, from where we were the path seems to go through AK and since I'm not aware of how the system will develop in there all the way, other people should take it from here. If they want the initiative of learning WWG in the open to continue, if not can just let it disapear with time. I'm fine either way, I did my part. : )

Someday we may meet somewhere else... But there doesn't seem a reason to stay in the forums, groups etc.. Most topics aren't going forward at all, WWG should be taken by AK students now in the open, if not then can return to the way it was before. The other systems have other ways to develop as well.
So time to move on...

[callmenewbie]

If index indicate the fact that thing will come or not to fruition , why is it necessary to have the matter element ?

Imagine someone ask about something related to wealth or a potential girlfriend

if the hexagram move and turn to be god (self on wealth line, object line turn into children line ) but the index (that is calculated according the energy level according to the date and month ) show that both are below zero ,  how do you interpret it then ?

Matter element is a must. without matter element, we will be losing focus. the index is the extend of the question you ask. One of the three keys of divination. As in your question asked, when we ask about wealth. self on asset or whatever good images. When the index below zero, it means not really that good. Everything has extension. When we say someone is rich, offspring line or asset line moves means they are rich. but how rich? below zero degree means rich that is not that rich. it is a system that entry to quantification of prediction. This index will improve the traditional ways of fortune telling. So, if you don't have the matter element. what index will you need to refer to? So, both needs to exist at the same time.

[firelink]

"matter element" means you are using AKs terminology...
If you use the Index too, lately I just set the index. Like the strength of the line shows if you can make it or not, that is Prosperity Index above 0 means you will make it, below 0 means you won't on the Other Line.

However, the index is more complex then it seems, there is info in the facebook group(its free group there).

Hi Gmulli ,
thankx for your contribution to AK and  AK generator, I try to understand the AK method but there are few things that doesn't seems to be explained in his book. For instance the index of the  hex generator of AK , could you enlight me ?
How does the index has been programmed ? it s seems based on the twelve phase of life cycle but when I compare the twelve phase with index number , it doesn't encompass all the twelve phase ? its it on intuitive base mixed with production and destruction cycle ?
If I understand correctly , the max value is + 8 and minimum  value is -8 , I 'm not sure how the  Zero value is attributed (it s seems important according to AK when using his method to know whether it is above or below that threshold) . Also It s seems that some same element could have different value (ex : earth chou , wei ) is it because of combo ? or not ?  (because if the logic was based on producing and destruction cycle, then I m not sure why the same element will have different value).  Finally I thought only even number in value was used , but there is sometime odd number (like -1 ) ,  how the even or odd number is determined ?