Self line or Officer star -Object - how to understand love relationship ?

[firelink]

Here is some case I never really cracked

iAccording to AK , the officer star will be used for husband, lover, boyfriend only if it s a girl who is the querent , and the boy will use wealth star only too.

but according to alex chu , the Officer star (R star using his terminology) is only used for trouble (if it s a male querent) , even if officer star is on self line , and even when wealth star produce officer star

then he show a lot of different exemple for this, but one of his example show that he used Officer star on self line was ok because he didn't thought about dating the girl (he was the querent for himself) , even thought he loved the girl. And it s seems that the situation turned well for him (it was pleasant and the girl visited him)


according to some other master , it s said that the Officer star on self line is OK (for male querent) only if it is on self line  because it represent husband and if the querent is asking about love relationship (even if he is not already her husband but for exemple her lover)  but not ok when the self line doesn't have the officer star (even if the self line sit on the wealth line or child line)

also alex chiu said that the U line represent the heart of the girl , then it is even more confusing and difficult to interpret the hex


my personnal experience is that when the Wealth is on self line , it s ok but doesn't mean that they are officially together (like presented to parent and so on ) when the self line has the officer line it mean they are officaly together , I m not sure what to think about the U line (object line)  representing the heart of the girl , sometime it s useful , sometime not , . Also when the object line turn into children star it s also useful for love

I would said that i m not sure if the useful god is officer on self line , or wealth on self line (or maybe child on self line) in point of view of the male querent as lover of a female

what do you think ? what s your experience about it ?

[Gmuli]

When the question is asked by the guy we won't need to find him, he will be on the Self line.
So we are only interested if the girl is asking(or we are asking for her).

If that is the case then guy is Officer sure or other line, depending how we need to use it. And lets look just at that so its clearer. So we have the female asking.
There are situations when the guy would be on the Other line. The way I currently understand it the idea here is if we can count the relationship as separate entity then he has to be on Officer, so we use Other line as the relationship.
The idea is they may be with great relations with each other, but that doesn't always mean they want to stay in a relationship. So the lines will relate great with each other, but one of them will have issues with the relationship line. Logically, if we don't set relationship on Other line, then we will only see they have great relation and that isn't all.

If they just meet for example then there isn't different entity "relationship", so we are only interested in the male and the female, no relationship factor yet.
If there is already different factor of the relationship as its own thing, then she is on Self, he is on Officer. And on Other line is the relationship.

Puppylove used to use the "relationship" as what the other person is thinking. I like using that as a separate entity instead, but the reading seems to not change in both cases.

Basically its up to how you will set it up. But if you set it up without the relationship all may look good, but they may still split, as the reason why they split you won't have a line that will show(not ready for serious relationship etc.).


At this point I would personally suggest forget Chiu and the rest, AK is doing amazing work.
We have the Settings he is using in his questions here:

https://www.bright-hall.net/wwg/akguru

Its above the "Question..." field, when unsure just choose a premade Setting and won't have to worry how to set it. As the Setting becomes extremly complex even just on Level 1, we are still waiting the level 2 info and bookz.

P.S. Puppylove has examples and explanation on that in the old forum, we have some from The Monk here as well, other then AK its the only other source I can recommend and this specific part of the system I'm using the way I understood back then, but the info is not much. Its all around the forum archives.

[firelink]

thankx Gmuli

not very certain of the rules of setting :


for exemple the case 17 : How will it be for a relationship between me (man asking) and Ms ?

said that : Setting: Self-self (Positive place of officer); Object-Ms A (Positive place of asset)



but for  case 25 : Is there any chance to get back this relationship ?

said that : Setting: Self-Mr A; Object-Ms C

and other case case 25 (yes there is two of them)

said that : Undefined


that s confusing

so if it is a guy who is asking what is the best configuration for him ?

self line on officer ? or self line on wealth ?

[Gmuli]

Self line on Officer would be better for the relationship, though, as if follow Puppyloves idea that Self line shows what is in their heart and mind, then Self line on Officer suggests he is in the right Image for a guy in a relationship.

If he is on Asset and there is no other Asset, then it will be difficult to make a relationship as the female isn't in the situation at all. The way I understood The Monk before there was idea that that means he has other Images of females from the past that stand in the way, I think sometimes it may be other stuff, but if there is no other Asset in the situation then the Self line, then its very unlikely it will work out, as it seems the system shows in the situation that specific female doesn't play a role at all.

While we still have a lot more to learn in AK levels, I would think it like this:

Case 17 - no relationship developed yet, so no need to set Relationship line on Other line.
Case 25 - well there is relationship, but he has decided to use the relation between the 2 lines to show the relationship I guess. All this is our choice to figure out based on what we want to see. In that case he decided to use just the 2 lines, its all good. : )

[firelink]

Thankx for your reply


I m ok with subject line to have Officer as good star for men in love question, what about object line ? is it mandatory to have Wealth star  ? or not ?

AK said, that U line (object line) is for everything else that is not in six kinship , then why on setting there is the object line as wealth star ?

According to Alex Chiu  -  it can be used fo everything else in some case  (look at example he give down)

but according to AK (some of the queseiton setting) , wealth star should be on object line

so what to use ? how to use ?


for exemple here is whast Alex chiu said  : 

I like this girl Elsa a lot.  So I tossed the coins asking when will I meet Elsa again.  I got [Hide].  I expected to meet her within 10 days.

Year   Month   Date   Hour   Empty Dates
    wa   t - I       t & c
 

Hide         
Hiders                           
P   sh   -                  
B   s   -   U               
R   w   -                  
B   s   -                  
G  y   R   w   --   J               
P   cn   --                  
A strong G hiding under the self line.  G woman star produces the self line R.   On day y, G y will appear.  So Elsa will appear on day y!

I know that I said if a G girl star produces the self line's R trouble star, it's a bad sign.  But in this case, I am not asking for a relationship nor am I asking can I date a certain girl.  In this sign, I simply was asking when will I meet this girl again.  See, my friend and I meet her quite often.  Either at a friend's house or at a restaurant.  So it's not very hard to see her.  So the G star producing the self line R star no longer is a bad sign.  The G star therefore represents the girl.  And the girl shall appear when G star moves or comes out of hiding.
Result:  On day y, my friend and I decided not to go to my brothers house, so we can't meet her on that day.  I thought that's pretty strange.  How can the hexagram be wrong?  G y is pretty strong, and it is producing the self line.  Is God telling me a lie?  Then all of a sudden, someone knocked on my door.  I opened the door, and there she was.  She came to surprise my friend and me.  Did God lie?  No!

[Gmuli]

but according to AK (some of the queseiton setting) , wealth star should be on object line

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you point me out to the source, is it the book?

I think the whole approach may be confusing. : )
Just try to relate it to the world around and see what will fit to it in the more encompassing way.

We have Officer - images of a guy, also something serious, responsible etc.
We have Asset - something of value, wanted etc.
In relationship in humanity they fall as Officer for a male in relationship and Asset for female it seems.

Then its up to us how we will use that in combination with all else we know to read the hexagram and figure out what its telling us.
But also adding that we provide some framework of how we want to receive the answer so we can get much more from it.

A female on Officer line- she is taking very responsible position or for some other reason carries Images of other guys with her. Again as if she is on Self line(and no other way to be sure that is showing her),  then we have to ask ourselves what does it mean for the female asking to have Images of Officer in her Heart and Mind.

Its not about good or bad, exactly, its just a description of what is going on. In this case she has either other guys, or is very worried etc. But if we set Officer will show a male, we can be sure its other guys.
And we fit what we know to the hexagram from the real world as description of the situation. Good or bad, rarely can fully cover it.

In this case:

I like this girl Elsa a lot.  So I tossed the coins asking when will I meet Elsa again.  I got [Hide].  I expected to meet her within 10 days.

So he asks when he will meet her again.
He doesn't provide in his setting any way to read that from. Trigrams can show time, Hexagrams can show time, branches can show time, different dynamic between lines can show time.

Since we don't have provided way to find the time of meeting in there, it can be read in endless amounts of ways and at the same time it can't learn much from it. Having the Asset in void and look when the void is ending in this case provide somewhat simple answer and he follows on that. So it works out without Setting in this case, but this is very specific and somewhat obvious example, not everytime it will.

Anyway - my idea is - this is question about timing, not relationships. As he didn't ask how happy they wlil be, what she thinks about him etc. And while some of that may be found in the answer, it won't be fully reliable in my view, as the system is focusing on providing the answer he seeks(if her line is in void, means it will be specific branch, can't be any branch if the void becomes so important for the answer, there are only 2 in void at any given time from the day).

So if the priority is to present a line in void, that is the answer to the question.

[Gmuli]

Thankx for your reply


I m ok with subject line to have Officer as good star for men in love question, what about object line ? is it mandatory to have Wealth star  ? or not ?

AK said, that U line (object line) is for everything else that is not in six kinship , then why on setting there is the object line as wealth star ?

According to Alex Chiu  -  it can be used fo everything else in some case  (look at example he give down)

but according to AK (some of the queseiton setting) , wealth star should be on object line

so what to use ? how to use ?


for exemple here is whast Alex chiu said  : 

I like this girl Elsa a lot.  So I tossed the coins asking when will I meet Elsa again.  I got [Hide].  I expected to meet her within 10 days.

Year   Month   Date   Hour   Empty Dates
    wa   t - I       t & c
 

Hide         
Hiders                           
P   sh   -                  
B   s   -   U               
R   w   -                  
B   s   -                  
G  y   R   w   --   J               
P   cn   --                  
A strong G hiding under the self line.  G woman star produces the self line R.   On day y, G y will appear.  So Elsa will appear on day y!

I know that I said if a G girl star produces the self line's R trouble star, it's a bad sign.  But in this case, I am not asking for a relationship nor am I asking can I date a certain girl.  In this sign, I simply was asking when will I meet this girl again.  See, my friend and I meet her quite often.  Either at a friend's house or at a restaurant.  So it's not very hard to see her.  So the G star producing the self line R star no longer is a bad sign.  The G star therefore represents the girl.  And the girl shall appear when G star moves or comes out of hiding.
Result:  On day y, my friend and I decided not to go to my brothers house, so we can't meet her on that day.  I thought that's pretty strange.  How can the hexagram be wrong?  G y is pretty strong, and it is producing the self line.  Is God telling me a lie?  Then all of a sudden, someone knocked on my door.  I opened the door, and there she was.  She came to surprise my friend and me.  Did God lie?  No!

I looked into that again, as his way of transcribing it is very different then what we usually use, I didn't read in carefully before.

So her line isn't in void its hidden behind his line, it seems?
Then he just chosses the day when that line shows up.

Suggesting he has a setting that he will look at, just doesn't provide it before reading, that is fine I guess.
But the Self line isn't Asset, even if it was it isn't relationship question.
Even if it is Asset on relationship question and the guy is asking it could still work. But only if there is at least one more Asset and he set the girl to be on it.

[firelink]

but according to AK (some of the queseiton setting) , wealth star should be on object line

I don't understand what you mean here. Can you point me out to the source, is it the book?

it s on question setting case 17  : 
How will it be for the relationship between me (man asking) Ms A ?

Setting: Self-self (Positive place of officer); Object-Ms A (Positive place of asset)

My question was for male querent
 
imagine if the male querent ask that question case 17  and  he got a officer not in self line (but on object line ) but got a wealth line in self line , how do you intrepret ?  using the setting ?


also brother star is the competitor for wealth - but if officer star is somewhere else than self line , does it mean other guy ? so also competitor ?

(imagine self line has wealth and object line officer star )

[Gmuli]

Aha!
But I assume this is like the Yang line for male and Yin line for female. Some indication they are suited for their role.
Wouldn't focus too much on that part its just a hint that the 2 Assetlines in this case may be a problem I guess.

As if we read the example in the book the essence of it seems to be related to the combination of the Other line with another Officer line(so her with another male), not focusing that much on the fact Self line is asset to begin with.

imagine if the male querent ask that question case 17  and  he got a officer not in self line (but on object line ) but got a wealth line in self line , how do you intrepret ?  using the setting ?

That is the situation. Male is asking and he is Asset line with another officer line.

also brother star is the competitor for wealth - but if officer star is somewhere else than self line , does it mean other guy ? so also competitor ?

Sure. All is explained in the book, however, the Settings on the site are just to point to the full examples in the book and blog. And the case goes exactly like that. (at least I assume so, the explanation isn't as clear, but if we focus on the other Asset line combining with the Officer I would assume so, yes)

[The-Monk]

also brother star is the competitor for wealth - but if officer star is somewhere else than self line , does it mean other guy ? so also competitor ?

You need to look at this in context of the whole reading. Another Officer in the reading could be anything. But if there is also an Officer on the Self Line, AND you are asking about romance with a particular girl, then if there is another Officer line, because it is for all intents and purposes "the same" as you are, this Officer Line now is a competitor. Because this is an identical or near enough representation (Image) of what you are in the reading, and as you are asking from a romantic perspective, this "other" version of you will be after the same thing, hence, competitor.

If the Self Line is not an Officer, then this "outside" (Non Self or Other Line) Officer, may or may not be a competitor. This would then be down to the question at hand.

[firelink]

the problem here is there is two kind of competitor ,  for self line , officer in other line thant self line and Brother star , Why is it so ? how is it possible to define the same competition for different star with totally different effect ? (brother is controlled by officer )  = therefore it s impossible to understand what is the useful god  - the source god  and so on ...

[Gmuli]

also brother star is the competitor for wealth - but if officer star is somewhere else than self line , does it mean other guy ? so also competitor ?

You need to look at this in context of the whole reading. Another Officer in the reading could be anything. But if there is also an Officer on the Self Line, AND you are asking about romance with a particular girl, then if there is another Officer line, because it is for all intents and purposes "the same" as you are, this Officer Line now is a competitor. Because this is an identical or near enough representation (Image) of what you are in the reading, and as you are asking from a romantic perspective, this "other" version of you will be after the same thing, hence, competitor.

If the Self Line is not an Officer, then this "outside" (Non Self or Other Line) Officer, may or may not be a competitor. This would then be down to the question at hand.

Very interesting indeed. As this is same idea as the line attacking the Self getting Images of Officer. So its remainer we can use not only the Hexagram as Image of relation, but also the Self line. Then the question, "how can we get 2 images of competitor" gets even more answers, as now there is that level of relations too.

firelink: Sadly, in metaphysics the rule usually is - if unsure, reread until sure.Rarely "if unsure ask the same question" as likely it has been answered already.
 I remember in very different forums some decades ago at times had to spend hours rereading the same post until I get all the connections I could. As that is the path we have chosen with metaphysics and divination, its the way it is.

[Gmuli]

If they just meet for example then there isn't different entity "relationship", so we are only interested in the male and the female, no relationship factor yet.
If there is already different factor of the relationship as its own thing, then she is on Self, he is on Officer. And on Other line is the relationship.

Turns out this isn't exactly what it seems. These seems to be a way the information is represented in the answer, so its different for relationship and for obtaining something(spouse in this case). But it could be others as well. It seems very logical.

Explanation on that in the second AK book, will post link in the other topic after this.

[firelink]

If they just meet for example then there isn't different entity "relationship", so we are only interested in the male and the female, no relationship factor yet.
If there is already different factor of the relationship as its own thing, then she is on Self, he is on Officer. And on Other line is the relationship.

Turns out this isn't exactly what it seems. These seems to be a way the information is represented in the answer, so its different for relationship and for obtaining something(spouse in this case). But it could be others as well. It seems very logical.

Explanation on that in the second AK book, will post link in the other topic after this.

which book are you refering to  ?

[Gmuli]

There is link here for amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/9671938736

Can see parts of it in google books and other places. Its very good, in my humble view.

Can also see info on AK site:
https://www.akguru.my/wwg-textbook-lv2