Six Combination and Transformation

[JLim (Darma W)]

Hi All,

Let's talk about Wu-Wei combination

H          D         M        Y

Ding    Ren        X         X
Wei      Zi        Shen     Wu

Let's try with this (real) chart.  Male Ren Daymaster.   What do you think about the Wu-Wei combination in this chart? 
1)  Do they transform to Fire?
2)  Do they transform to Earth?
3)  Do they not transform?

[azizfrost]

Hi All,

Let's talk about Wu-Wei combination

H          D         M        Y

Ding    Ren        X         X
Wei      Zi        Shen     Wu

Let's try with this (real) chart.  Male Ren Daymaster.   What do you think about the Wu-Wei combination in this chart? 
1)  Do they transform to Fire?
2)  Do they transform to Earth?
3)  Do they not transform?

I thought combinations need to be beside each other?

I think it will not transform? I don't know 

[Gmuli]

Currently I view it based to this:
https://kevinchanbazi.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/bazi-relationship-earthly-branch-combination/

With the idea they don't transform, they just create 1 additional element. So they work together. That is the way its presented in the videos(in youtube), but the Images fit to events, well enough for me.

About the months and is it always fire... I need more info to be able to comment on that. When it transforms to Earth and when to Fire. Logically we can guess Earth months - Earth, Fire months - Fire. But I'm guessing it won't be as simple as that. : )

[Gmuli]

Using Feng Shui Expose rule for Stem/Branches interactions they do create a stem of fire. But I'm guessing this is something different, as by the rule there they still never create Earth.

[coldpillow]

If there's a Wu-Wei combo that can possibly be transformed into Earth, here is an example: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=NKES&y=1988&m=7&d=3&h=%3F&g=-5&l=-85.6024&s=1&city1=-85.6024%7Cmichigan&ds=1&src=2&mid=51947

The chart owner is Nicole Kessinger.

This one is Johnny Depp: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=Depp%2C+Johnny&y=1963&m=6&d=9&h=08%3A44&g=-6&l=-87.07&lon=21.3069

I'm sure Wu-Wei either transformed into fire or produced more fire, leaving earth intact at the month branch. So it's either wealth follower type or mixed follower type (wealth and power).

[JLim (Darma W)]

If there's a Wu-Wei combo that can possibly be transformed into Earth, here is an example: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=NKES&y=1988&m=7&d=3&h=%3F&g=-5&l=-85.6024&s=1&city1=-85.6024%7Cmichigan&ds=1&src=2&mid=51947

The chart owner is Nicole Kessinger.

This one is Johnny Depp: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=Depp%2C+Johnny&y=1963&m=6&d=9&h=08%3A44&g=-6&l=-87.07&lon=21.3069

I'm sure Wu-Wei either transformed into fire or produced more fire, leaving earth intact at the month branch. So it's either wealth follower type or mixed follower type (wealth and power).

coldpillow, hi.  Which chart are you talking about?  Are you talking about Johny Depp?  But there is no Earth at the Month Branch.

[coldpillow]

coldpillow, hi.  Which chart are you talking about?  Are you talking about Johny Depp?  But there is no Earth at the Month Branch.

Yes, the Depp chart. I mean, Wei earth at Day Branch, not Month. 

[Gmuli]

Well, if we try to put it all together Puppylove used that too. The idea that some stems are 'locked' in interaction others are released. For Self Combining pillars, but logically that should work in other places.

That fits, somewhat to the rule of FSE('heaven moves earth stands still' and all...).
As all branches used there do contain hidden stems of that element.

So it seems when hidden stems repeat in some cases they release a 'stem' of that element.
There seems to be more, no idea about transform either, I guess just in cases something gets weaker(Wu and Wei, if they release Fire, Wu now will contain only Earth, so maybe that is the reason).

There seems to be more. Season seem to play a role, also a lot is unclear, why 'fire' in Wu Wei releases, while the Earth that also repeats doesn't.
Why Yin and Wei for example, doesn't create Wood stem when both carry Wood hidden stem. Also same question for Fire, as they also both carry Fire.

Overall, some stuff seem to be happening around the hidden stems, but very unclear what exactly.

[coldpillow]

I thought combinations need to be beside each other?

I think it will not transform? I don't know 

Good question. Not really sure when they're allowed to transform and when they're not.

This is Michael Jackson chart: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=Jackson%2C+Michael+%281958%29&h=19%3A33&d=29&m=08&y=1958&l=-87.21&src=1&g=-6&ds=on&s=&rr=DD

It has a seasonal/directional combo (You-Shen-Xu), but the elements are not side-to-side (separated by Yin). And Yin clashed with Shen.

However, I think the combo still allows transformation into metal... the end result is a fake output follower chart, which explains his big success during water (wealth) decade luck and his decline during Yi Chou decade luck.

Some experts say Yin is the loser and Shen is the winner in that Yin-Shen clash (metal is stronger with Shen at the month branch).

[Gmuli]

But here we have same problem. There is so much Metal and Earth that there is no way to figure out if there is one more Metal stem created or not. : )

In my humble view, it seems that(arrangement) isn't a problem. Someone I know does have Wu<>Zi<>Wei with Metal DM and the Officer in Wu does change into knowledge, in many cases it seems. While Wei does act like Officer in Fire LPs and stuff.

Currently I assume that works no matter the chart. So MJ case it will create Metal, but that won't change much as we do have tons of metal there.

[coldpillow]

Currently I assume that works no matter the chart. So MJ case it will create Metal, but that won't change much as we do have tons of metal there.

Yeah, his chart gives an impression of diamond and gold mine at first sight.

[Jiyou]

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[JLim (Darma W)]

Hi JiYou, that's right, in Mangpai they do not transform.  Elementally, all Six Combinations do not transform.  Wu remains Fire, while Wei remains Earth.  Since Wei is seen as dry Earth, Wei can get further strengthened by Wu as Fire. 

Zi-Chou combination:  Zi remains Water, while Chou remains wet Earth.  They join hands together in the combination, and contribute Qi for each other, but in Mangpai we don't see both as changing or transforming to Earth.  Therefore, Zi doesn't lose its Water nature. 

As for the work process that JiYou mentioned, there are conditions for a combination to become a work process.  But that's a separate topic

[coldpillow]

How about six harmony combo which involves destruction like Si-Shen which produce a new element (water)?

Will they retain the original element too or it's just water in the end?

[coldpillow]

Halle Berry: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&n=Berry%2C+Halle&y=1966&m=8&d=14&h=23%3A59&g=-5&l=-81.42&s=1&ds=1&licz2=1&src=1&rr=A

Without transformation, I read her chart as a fake output follower.
With transformation, I read her chart as a normal chart.

Reality: Her career peaked during Ren Chen decade luck. Slowed down during Xin Mao until today.

Another example from a local artist: https://bazi-calculator.com/?licz=1&y=1924&m=8&d=31&h=00%3A35&g=0&l=0&ds=1

With transformation, I read his chart as a fake output follower.
Without transformation, I read his chart as a normal chart.

Reality: He is a late bloomer in terms of achievements (from 50s to 70s), while the first 40 years of his life is awfully slow. 

Either case, I'm not sure which outcome is better: transformed chart or normal chart.