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Offline duesouth

Source of Wild Crane Studies
« on: May 30, 2025, 06:00:33 AM »
Hi all,

The link to the Source of Wild Crane Studies (https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html) referred by Tientai back in 2018 is broken.

Does anyone have a replacement link to the same source text?

Thanks.

Online smsek

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2025, 07:10:07 AM »
It appears the link you provided ([https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html](https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html)) is indeed broken, and a direct replacement for a source specifically titled "Source of Wild Crane Studies" by "Tientai" is not easily found through general searches.

It's possible that "Source of Wild Crane Studies" is a specific translation or interpretation of a text, or it might refer to a particular article or commentary related to Tiantai Buddhism and imagery of cranes.

To help you find a replacement, could you provide more context on the original link or the "Source of Wild Crane Studies"? For example:

* **What was the content of the original link?** Was it a full text, an academic article, a blog post, or something else?
* **What is "Tientai" referring to?** Is it the Tiantai school of Buddhism, a specific person named Tientai, or something else? Knowing this could narrow down the search for relevant texts.
* **What kind of "Wild Crane Studies" was it?** Was it about:
    * **Actual cranes (the birds) in a religious or symbolic context?**
    * **A specific text or teaching that uses "wild crane" as a metaphor or title?**
    * **Something else entirely?**

Without more information, it's difficult to pinpoint the exact source you're looking for. The search results show various academic papers and reports related to Tiantai Buddhism and general studies on wild cranes, but nothing directly matching your original link's title and author.

Offline duesouth

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2025, 07:42:52 AM »
Hi smsek,

My apologies. I was referring to this post by Tientai: MODERATORS NOTE ABOUT THE SOURCE OF WILD CRANE @ OTHER LIU YAO STUDIES... https://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=230.0

Thanks.

Online smsek

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2025, 07:55:40 AM »
Ah, thank you for clarifying! The mention of "Liu Yao" immediately clarifies the context. "Liu Yao" (六爻) is a popular Chinese **danmei novel by Priest**, also known as "Liu Yao: The Revitalization of Fuyao Sect."

Given this, the "Source of Wild Crane Studies" is almost certainly **not a literal study of wild cranes (the birds)**. Instead, it's highly likely to be a fan-made resource, analysis, or perhaps even a fan translation of the novel itself, or related content. The "Wild Crane" likely refers to a character, a theme, or a specific element within the "Liu Yao" novel or the broader *xianxia/wuxia* genre it belongs to.

The broken link was likely hosted on a personal blog, fan translation site, or a forum that is no longer active or has changed its URL.

**To find a replacement for "Source of Wild Crane Studies" related to the Liu Yao novel, I would recommend the following approaches:**

1.  **Fan Translation Sites:** The most common way to read danmei novels like Liu Yao in English is through fan translation websites. Many dedicated fans translate and host these novels. Search for "Liu Yao novel English translation" or "Liu Yao Priest translation." Popular platforms include:
    * **Novel Updates:** This site aggregates links to various fan translations. Searching for "Liu Yao" there will likely give you many options.
    * **Wattpad, Archive of Our Own (AO3), or similar fanfiction/fan-translation platforms:** Many fan translators might host their work there.
    * **Dedicated fan translation blogs/websites:** Some translators have their own sites.

2.  **Danmei Fandom Communities:**
    * **Reddit (e.g., r/DanmeiNovels):** This subreddit is a very active community for danmei fans. If you post there asking for "Source of Wild Crane Studies" in relation to Liu Yao, someone might recognize the specific resource and provide a working link or an alternative.
    * **Tumblr:** Many danmei fandoms are very active on Tumblr. Searching for "Liu Yao" + "Wild Crane" + "studies" (or similar keywords) might lead you to discussions or re-uploads of the original content.
    * **Discord Servers:** There are numerous Discord servers dedicated to danmei or specific authors like Priest. Joining one and asking in the relevant channels could yield results.

3.  **Priest's Official Works/Author Sites (if applicable):** While the "Wild Crane Studies" sounds like a fan-created resource, checking official sources for the author Priest (晋江文学城 - Jinjiang Literature City is her main platform in China) might lead to official summaries or linked discussions that could shed light on the specific content. However, these would be in Chinese.

**To reiterate, search for "Liu Yao novel English translation" or "Liu Yao Priest fan resources" and then look for discussions or links within those communities that might mention "Wild Crane Studies."** It's highly unlikely to be a formal academic study on birds given the context of the novel.

Online smsek

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2025, 07:57:58 AM »
OR===>Thank you for the clarification! Since you're referring to **Tientai's post about the source of "Wild Crane" and other Liu Yao (六爻) studies**, it's likely that the original link (`ww1.huliwenku.com`) was hosting related texts but is now inaccessible. 

### **Steps to Find the Material:** 
1. **Check Alternative Repositories** 
   - If this is related to **Liu Yao (Six Lines) divination**, try searching on: 
     - **[Scribd](https://www.scribd.com/)** (sometimes hosts Chinese metaphysics texts) 
     - **[Baidu Wenku](https://wenku.baidu.com/)** (Chinese document-sharing site) 
     - **[Douban](https://www.douban.com/)** (Chinese forum where users share resources) 

2. **Search for the Exact Title** 
   - If "Wild Crane" refers to **《野鹤占卜全书》 (Ye He Zhan Bu Quan Shu, "Wild Crane’s Complete Divination Manual")**, it's a famous Liu Yao text. Try searching: 
     - **Google:** `野鹤占卜全书 PDF` 
     - **Baidu:** `野鹤六爻全书 下载` 

3. **Check Dedicated Forums** 
   - **Chinese Metaphysics Forums** (e.g., [Tianya](http://bbs.tianya.cn/), [Douban Groups](https://www.douban.com/group/)) may have discussions or shared files. 
   - **Reddit’s r/iching or r/ChineseMetaphysics** might have alternative sources. 

4. **Request from Liu Yao Communities** 
   - If you’re part of a **Liu Yao study group** (e.g., on **Facebook, Discord, or WeChat**), ask if anyone has a backup of the material. 

### **If You Need the Original Post Context:** 
- If Tientai’s post was on a forum (e.g., **DaoBums, TCM or I Ching forums**), try searching for cached versions via: 
  - **Google:** `site:forumname.com "Wild Crane" Liu Yao Tientai` 
  - **Archive.org** (Wayback Machine) 

Would you happen to recall **which platform** Tientai posted this on? That might help narrow down the search. Let me know if you need further assistance!

Offline duesouth

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2025, 08:13:10 AM »
Hi smsek,

Thank you for your detailed response.

Actually Tientai posted it in this very forum folder (Liu Yao).

I believe Tientai is referring to 增刪卜易 Zēngshān Bǔyì (ZSBY). But as there are various versions of ZSBY out there (I have my own preference), I was wondering which version he had adopted for his Liu Yao Case Studies sub-folder.

Regards.

Online smsek

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2025, 10:01:47 AM »
This is an excellent clarification! Thank you. Understanding that "Tientai" posted in the **Liu Yao forum folder** and is likely referring to **增刪卜易 (Zēngshān Bǔyì - ZSBY)** makes the search much more specific and relevant to traditional Chinese divination, rather than the danmei novel. My apologies for the initial misdirection; "Liu Yao" can indeed refer to both.

**增刪卜易 (ZSBY)** is a classic text on Liu Yao (六爻) divination, and you are correct that there are indeed various versions and editions floating around, some with different commentaries, annotations, or even minor textual variations.

Given that Tientai was sharing a link to his specific "Source of Wild Crane Studies" within the context of his "Liu Yao Case Studies" sub-folder on a forum, it strongly suggests he was either:

1.  **Using a specific version of ZSBY that he considered foundational or particularly useful for his studies/interpretations.** The "Wild Crane Studies" might be his own personal notes, a compiled version of specific ZSBY sections he relies on, or a translation/interpretation he created.
2.  **Referring to a *commentary on ZSBY* that he found particularly insightful.** Sometimes different schools or practitioners will have their own interpretations that become well-known.
3.  **Using "Wild Crane" as a metaphorical title for his *own synthesis or unique approach* to Liu Yao divination based on ZSBY.** In Chinese classical texts, poetic or symbolic titles are common.

Since the original link is broken, and it was likely a personal upload or a less commonly known online resource, finding that *exact* version is challenging. However, here's how you can approach finding a suitable replacement or at least understand which version Tientai might have been using:

**Strategies to Identify Tientai's ZSBY Version/Source:**

1.  **Check Archive.org (Wayback Machine):** This is your best first bet.
    * Go to [https://archive.org/web/](https://archive.org/web/)
    * Enter the original broken link: `https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html`
    * See if there are any archived snapshots of the page from 2018 or earlier. If you're lucky, the content might be preserved, or you might get clues about the specific edition.

2.  **Contact Tientai Directly (if possible):** If Tientai is still active on that forum or has other online presence, the most direct way to get the information is to ask him directly which version of ZSBY he referenced for his "Source of Wild Crane Studies." He might even be able to provide a new link or share the material.

3.  **Examine Tientai's Liu Yao Case Studies:** If Tientai's case studies sub-folder is still accessible, carefully read through some of his analyses. He might explicitly mention the edition or specific commentaries he uses for his interpretations. Look for:
    * Direct citations or references to specific page numbers or chapter names.
    * Any introductory remarks about his methodology or sources.
    * Particular terminology or interpretive approaches that might distinguish one ZSBY lineage from another.

4.  **Look for Well-Known ZSBY Editions and Commentaries:** While you have your preference, knowing the common editions might help you identify Tientai's. Some notable points about ZSBY:
    * The original author is **Wang Hongxu (王洪緒)** from the Qing Dynasty.
    * Many modern editions are based on the original woodblock prints.
    * **Commentaries:** Some editions include extensive commentaries from later masters. These commentaries can significantly shape the interpretation.
    * **Translations/Interpretations:** There are also various modern Chinese and English interpretations or summaries of ZSBY. "Wild Crane Studies" could refer to one of these.

    You might look for common ZSBY editions published by reputable metaphysical publishers in Taiwan, Hong Kong, or mainland China, or English translations that are widely circulated within Liu Yao communities.

**Why "Wild Crane"?**

The term "Wild Crane" (野鶴 - Yě Hè) itself has significance in Chinese culture, often symbolizing longevity, reclusion, and connection to the Daoist immortals. It's also a common term associated with profound or esoteric knowledge. It's plausible that "Wild Crane Studies" was either:
* A poetic title for a particular interpretation or lineage of ZSBY.
* A direct reference to a master or school that used "Wild Crane" in their name or teachings.
* Tientai's own chosen "brand" for his in-depth studies.

Given your understanding of ZSBY, if you can access any of Tientai's existing case studies, comparing his interpretations with your preferred ZSBY version might give you clues about where his "Wild Crane Studies" diverges or aligns.

Good luck with your search!

Offline duesouth

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2025, 11:45:58 PM »
Hi smsek,

Thank you for your efforts.

1. I had forgotten about Archive.org (Wayback Machine), thanks for that. Checking, I found that the https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html page was unfortunately not archived.
2. Re: contacting Tientai. My understanding is that he has passed away.
3. I did go through Liu Yao Case Studies posts but I cannot find mention of the edition that Tientai used.
4. My research shows Lǐ Wénhuī (李文輝) and Lǐ Wǒpíng (李我平) are the co-authors of ZSBY. Their work was based on the handwritten notes of Old Man Wild Crane (野鶴老人). Following Chinese custom, the two Lǐs attributed the authorship of ZSBY to Wild Crane. The actual identity of Wild Crane is unknown although some speculate that he is Dīng Yàokàng (丁耀亢).

Perhaps JLim or other senior forumers may know the specific ZSBY version that Tientai used?

Thanks.

Online smsek

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2025, 05:15:20 AM »
Thank you for this crucial clarification. Knowing that **Old Man Wild Crane (野鶴老人)** is the attributed author of 增刪卜易 (ZSBY), compiled by Li Wenhui and Li Woping, makes the context of "Source of Wild Crane Studies" perfectly clear. It directly refers to **a specific edition, commentary, or interpretation of the core ZSBY text** that Tientai utilized.

It's unfortunate that the Wayback Machine didn't capture the page, and my deepest condolences for the news regarding Tientai. His contributions to the forum are clearly valued.

Given these circumstances, and your thorough investigation, the most direct path now is exactly as you suggested: to reach out to other senior forum members who may have been familiar with Tientai's work and his preferred sources.

**My strong recommendation is for you to make a new post directly in the forum where Tientai's "Liu Yao Case Studies" are located.**

In your forum post, I would suggest including the following points to maximize the chances of getting a helpful response from JLim or other knowledgeable members:

1.  **Reference Tientai's original post:** Explicitly mention the "MODERATORS NOTE ABOUT THE SOURCE OF WILD CRANE @ OTHER LIU YAO STUDIES" and the now-broken link (`https://www.huliwenku.com/p/na4p3zdo.html`).
2.  **State your understanding:** Confirm that you understand "Source of Wild Crane Studies" refers to a specific version or interpretation of 增刪卜易 (ZSBY) by Old Man Wild Crane (野鶴老人), which Tientai used for his Liu Yao Case Studies.
3.  **Explain your efforts:** Mention that you've tried the Wayback Machine and reviewed Tientai's accessible case studies without finding an explicit mention of the ZSBY edition.
4.  **Directly ask:** Request if JLim or any other senior forum members happen to know the specific ZSBY edition, commentary, or source that Tientai used and referred to as his "Source of Wild Crane Studies."
5.  **Explain your purpose (optional but helpful):** You could briefly state that you're seeking this information to better understand and align with Tientai's interpretive framework in his valuable case studies.

By addressing the forum directly, especially if you can tag or specifically mention members like JLim (depending on the forum's functionality), you're leveraging the collective memory and expertise of the community that was familiar with Tientai's work. They might have personal knowledge, notes, or even copies of the materials he referenced.

Good luck with your search on the forum!

Offline ren

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2025, 06:29:41 AM »
Hi DueSouth,

2) https://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&res=497805
    https://ctext.org/wiki.pl?if=gb&chapter=52651

"The Art of Divination: Additions and Deletions - 增刪卜易 (ZhenShen BuYi - ZSBY)" – Volume 4
Authored by the Old Man of the Wild Crane
Examined and Verified by Li Tan of Chujiang
Edited and Expanded by Li Wenhui (Juezi) of Hunan
Preface by Chen Zhiji, Maosheng Nanru, and Zhishan Xiu
Chapter 69: Visiting Nobles and Seeking Wealth .......

ren

Offline duesouth

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2025, 07:04:23 AM »
Hi ren,

Ah, so Tientai used the Chinese text project version.

Thanks.

Offline Dao

Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2025, 12:14:26 PM »
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Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2025, 02:49:47 PM »
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Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2025, 02:52:04 PM »
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Re: Source of Wild Crane Studies
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2025, 02:52:34 PM »
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