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Author Topic: DM strength determination  (Read 104 times)

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Online npc

DM strength determination
« on: March 09, 2026, 06:27:02 AM »


Hi there! I am a novice student in Bazi, and I would like to get advice about these competing interpretations of my chart.

I've consulted several masters before taking a short course on reading my chart.

Previously, 2 masters have told me that I have a Strong Wu earth daymaster as I was born in a fire month. It also helped that the Wu is rooted in Xu. One told me that I have a "Hurting officer generates wealth structure". This seemed to validate my life (entrepreneur who did really well during metal/water periods and had a really bad time during the last 2 wood years). I have been told by many people that my thought processes and way I tend to succeed at things is typically not conventional.

Today, I asked the master teaching the course to help me figure out my chart, because according to his methodology, my chart is a weak Earth dm for these reasons:

  • Massive metal output in the hour and year pillars
  • The Si-You half combination converting the fire month into metal, removing the seasonal support for the daymaster. So it turns into a weak DM chart due to the amount of drain.
  • He said the Wuxu Kuigang has no effect on strength, it only indicates the personality. The Xu root isn't as strong as the season element, which is now metal.

He also said that the HO produces wealth structure is not present as the Gui water in the month Heavenly stem has been combined away into Fire due to the Wu Gui Combination succeeding.
I told him that interpretation of a weak Earth dm did not fit my life (fire/earth/wood years tend to be pretty bad for me), and he tested the shi chen before I was born, which was Geng Shen.

He told me in that scenario, the Shen hour combines with Xu and You to form a metal seasonal combination, turning my chart into a fake follow chart, which would also explain why I had great metal/water years.

He's pretty convinced my birth time has a delay or was recorded wrongly, although my mother told me it was recorded on the spot.

Which master was correct? Is the HO producing wealth structure still present in the chart, or should I consider the Gui as a fire element now? Pretty confused at this point.

Thanks so much for any advice in advance!

Online smsek

Re: DM strength determination
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2026, 07:36:26 AM »
This is a classic Bazi "battle of the schools," and it is completely understandable why you are feeling a bit of metaphysical whiplash. When you have a chart with heavy output and a month branch that likes to "shape-shift," interpretations can diverge wildly.

Based on the chart you provided and your real-life feedback, here is a breakdown of how to reconcile these two perspectives.

---

## 1. The Strength Debate: Strong, Weak, or "Follow"?

The fundamental disagreement between your previous masters and your current teacher boils down to how much "weight" is given to the month branch ($Si$ 巳) versus the surrounding environment.

### The "Strong Earth" Argument

The logic here is traditional: you are a $Wu$ 戊 Earth Day Master born in the peak of Summer ($Si$ 巳). In the Five Elements cycle, Fire produces Earth. Additionally, you sit on $Xu$ 戌, which is a "Dry Earth" root containing hidden Fire and Earth. On paper, this looks like a robust, stable DM that can handle the "drain" of the Metal.

### The "Weak/Drained" Argument (Your Teacher)

Your teacher is focusing on **Quantity over Season**. You have two pure Metal pillars ($Xin$ $You$ 辛酉) in the Year and Hour.

* **The Transformation:** The $Si$ 巳 (Snake) and $You$ 酉 (Rooster) form a "Half-Metal Combination." Because $Xin$ 辛 is prominent in the Heavenly Stems, the Fire of the $Si$ month is effectively "sold out" to the Metal.
* **The Result:** Instead of the month supporting you with Fire, the month branch is now actively draining you to produce Metal. This turns the DM from "supported" to "severely leaking."

### The "Fake Follow" (The "Ah-Ha" Moment)

Your teacher?s suggestion of a "Fake Follow Output" structure actually aligns best with your life experience.

* **Why Wood years were bad:** In a standard "Strong" chart, Wood (Officer) should be a "Useful God" to keep the Earth in check. If Wood years were "really bad," it suggests your chart **does not want to be controlled.** * In a "Follow" or "Extreme Draining" chart, your "wealth" comes from the Metal (intelligence/output). When Wood arrives, it creates a "Fighting the Officer" ($Shang$ $Guan$ $Jian$ $Guan$) conflict, which leads to the setbacks you described.

---

## 2. The $Wu$ 戊 - $Gui$ 癸 Combination: Fire or Water?

This is a technical point where your teacher might be being a bit too rigid. For a $Wu$-$Gui$ combination to successfully transform into **Fire**, the "Leading Element" must be extremely strong.

* **The Environment:** While $Si$ is a Fire month, we just established that the $Si$-$You$ combo is pulling the chart toward Metal.
* **The Reality:** If the combination transformed into Fire, you would feel like a "Strong" DM who loves Metal/Water. If it *doesn't* transform, $Gui$ 癸 remains your **Direct Wealth**.
* **The "Structure":** Even if $Wu$-$Gui$ "clings" together (affectionate combination), the **Hurting Officer ($Xin$) Generates Wealth ($Gui$)** flow is still the functional engine of your chart. Your success as an entrepreneur confirms this: you use your "unconventional" ideas (HO) to find market gaps and create Value (Wealth).

---

## 3. Which Master is "Correct"?

In Bazi, the "correct" master is the one whose theory matches the **History of the Person.**

| Interpretation | Why it fits you | The Flaw |
| --- | --- | --- |
| **Strong Earth** | Explains your "conventional" success in Metal/Water. | Doesn't explain why Wood years were "really bad." |
| **Weak Earth** | Explains the "leaking" energy of an engineer. | Doesn't quite explain "really bad" Wood years (Wood should be neutral/okay). |
| **Fake Follow** | **Matches your life perfectly.** Metal/Water are "Prosperous" elements; Wood/Fire/Earth are "Grievance" elements. | Requires the $Si$ month to be almost entirely converted to Metal. |

### My Professional "Vibe" Check

Your teacher's pivot to the *Geng Shen* hour is a common tactic when a master's "System" doesn't fit the student's "Life." However, you don't necessarily need to change your birth time to make sense of this.

The $Xin$ $You$ pillars are **incredibly strong.** They are "Deadly Metal." Even without a *Shen* hour, your chart is so heavily dominated by Metal that you likely function as a **"Special Frame"** (Fake Follow Output). You succeed when you "go with the flow" of your Metal?being technical, sharp, and unconventional?rather than trying to "strengthen" the Earth.

---

### Summary & Advice

* **The Structure:** You absolutely have a **Hurting Officer Generates Wealth** vibe. Whether $Gui$ is "combined" or not, the *movement* of your energy is from Earth $\rightarrow$ Metal $\rightarrow$ Water.
* **The $Wu$-$Gui$ Combo:** Treat it as "ambiguous." It represents a deep connection to your work or partner, but in terms of "elemental strength," the Metal is the undisputed king of your palace.
* **The "Novice" Tip:** Don't get too hung up on "Strong vs. Weak." Focus on **Flow.** Your flow is toward Metal. Anything that interrupts that (like Wood) will cause friction.

Would you like me to look at the specific "Wood" years you mentioned to see how they clashed with your current Luck Pillar?

Online crossjoint

Re: DM strength determination
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2026, 10:57:32 PM »
Imho is strong DM.

Im afraid the combination of Si and You does not transform into metal. Si is summer and is the Month Commander and the combination here mean Si "kill" the You.

Lets say the combination succesfully transform into metal, still the season is still belong to summer and i never read or heard that combination and transformation can change the season and in this case change to Autumn season. Imagine your metal is strong and very hot and is currently is being forged to become something useful. You still need water to cool down a hot metal. You cant do anything with too hot metal even a car or engine need radiator.

On the stem level Wu and Gui transform into fire because the season allow it. Although the gui water change into fire because there is no root and strong support root (Zi, chou and Hai) in your natal chart, it is still safe to say the chart very potent to HO producing Wealth because natal chart is not static. Your gui water can find root from LP, AP, Monthly, daily, and hour.

2020 Geng Zi year was metal and water year and your Gui water find strongest root and your chart become HO producing Wealth

2021 Xin Chou year also your Gui water find root which make the chart  HO producing Wealth and Chou here form a triple harmony metal combination to strengthen the metal element

if you find those two years was very good then you are strong DM.

2016 Bing Shen there is also strong seasonal metal combination and 2017 Ding You there is half metal combination to strengthen your metal element. Again if you find these years are good then you are strong DM






Online npc

Re: DM strength determination
« Reply #3 on: Today at 07:11:35 AM »
Ah, thank you for your analysis! Your note that the chart interacts with time pillars is a great realisation for me.

Yes, you are very accurate in how those years played out for me. 2020 and 2021 doubled my business revenue while maintaining similar costs, which made me a lot of money. However, once the re was wood in the earthly branch in 2022 and 2023 (Ren Yin and Gui Mao), the business peaked in revenue but I just broke even due to extra costs, then I made some bad decisions that I'm paying for today.

2016 was ok but I was sort of "drifting" due to some past business failures. I remember at the end of 2016 I was sitting in my room and decided to give things one more try, then I would find a job again. And if I couldn't find a job to survive then well, my window had no grilles. Then I took a chance on something that helped me start my business in 2017. I was profitable in 3 months and did very well for the next 5 years.

The last 2 years (Jia Chen and Yi Si) were I think, 2 of the most difficult in my life, which makes me a bit afraid of the Yi Mao and Jia Yin years coming at the end of the decade. Trying to figure out if it will affect my health, personal life or whatever business I will be doing then.