Da Liu Ren Divination short introduction

[The-Monk]

Short introduction what a Da Liu Ren / DLR (大六壬) reading comprises of, for those knowing nothing of DLR.

Da Liu Ren is composed of three parts that make up a "chart" for Divination reading.

These parts are of the "chart" are:
1. The Heaven and Earth Plate/Pan/Map/Formation (天地盤)
2. The Class/Scrolls (四課)
3. The Messages/Transmission/Proclamation/Accouncement (三傳)

The Messages are derived from the Class (using one of 8 models depending on the Class involved).
The Class is derived from the Date (Stem and Branch) of the Divination and by what is on the Heaven and Earth Plate.
The Twelve Deities are located in a specific pattern on the Heaven and Earth Plate; derived from the Date and Hour of the Divination.

Typically the Messages show the passage of time ahead, the ease and difficulty at the success, completion or failure of what has been asked.
Typically the Class shows the current state of the question at hand, what all parties are really thinking of the matter, and what they plan to do after.
The Heaven and Earth Plate is often of little value for common DLR Divination because of the style of DLR that is widely taught.

Advantages of DLR

• Clear defined in what represents the person asking, and what they are asking about. It is impossible for you to not know what to look for during an interpretaion of a Divnation reading. This applies for the bottom two points as well.
• Clear representations of current situation and true feelings and actions that will be taken soon.
• Clear map of how things will progress.

Disadvantages of DLR

• Lengthy to manually plot, resulting in slow readings traditionally.
• Somewhat limited to pre-defined types of questions for those using the widely taught DLR method to maintain accuracy and simplicity baked into DLR system. Questions with uncommon topics or unusual characteristics or topics reduce the level of accuracy from deviating from the foundation for Interpreting used for a DLR reading.
• Widely taught DLR restricts DLR users to one reading per 2 hour period.
• Memorisation of numerous aspects (Deities, their Branch representations, positions, Five Elements, Empty/Void, etc) needed, in order to exceed the details provided by other faster Divination methods. (It is a very steep slope, and many do not get far beyond the beginning to make learning DLR worthwhile)
• Extremely Important: Requires access to current Date and Time.
• Certain core chart production elements are in dispute, resulting in variations of charts despite using the same details of when the Divination was done.

Should you learn DLR?
If you do not have a teacher, or someone who can advise and direct you during your learning, and you do not have access to the material in Chinese, it is not recommended that you learn DLR, simply because the amount of information you must assimilate to get basic accurate Interpretations going is enormous. You would sooner reach a competent level in another Divination method long before you can do the same in DLR otherwise.

[Gmuli]

Thanks!

Although plotting is getting easier with modern technologies.
Lately, we are using Liu Yao on the street on our phones and it helps a lot. But I understand and will stay with the other systems for now.

[tanpai]

„Questions with uncommon topics or unusual characteristics or topics reduce the level of accuracy from deviating from the foundation for Interpreting used for a DLR reading”
Although this definition applies to any divination  system!
„Widely taught DLR restricts DLR users to one reading per 2 hour period.”
Why is that? You can set de software at any time!
For example, an accident happened yesterday, its time is known, you take it as your basis.
„Memorisation of numerous aspects (Deities, their Branch representations, positions, Five Elements, Empty/Void, etc) needed,  in order to exceed the details provided by other faster Divination methods.”
 Which is the faster divination method???
Those who practice a lot know the decode value in a short time.
„The amount of information you must assimilate to get basic accurate Interpretations going is enormous. You would sooner reach a competent level in another Divination method long before you can do the same in DLR otherwise.”
 I do not know such a fast and comptent method. For example, either Yi Jing or WenWangGua require years of experience.

[Gmuli]

„Widely taught DLR restricts DLR users to one reading per 2 hour period.”
Why is that? You can set de software at any time!

In QMDJ we make the map depending on the time the question comes up. There are situations other maps can be used(time of birth, house build date etc.) but its rare.

In that sense, making more then 1 reading in that same 2 hour period has its restrictions. its not impossible, but it requires specific circumstances, like outside source of questions etc
Just reading another situation in the same 2 hour period doesn't seem to be reflected in the maps.  There are many ways people are attempting to do it, but in my experience it doesn't seem to work, so far.
(and I've been on that for many years now)

Since both QMDj and DLR are part of the 三式 it makes sense that DLR maps would work in similar ways. : )

„The amount of information you must assimilate to get basic accurate Interpretations going is enormous. You would sooner reach a competent level in another Divination method long before you can do the same in DLR otherwise.”
 I do not know such a fast and comptent method. For example, either Yi Jing or WenWangGua require years of experience.

True, yet that doesn't mean there can't be more complicated systems.I really like WWG, but if we look at other systems, QMDJ for example has a lot more components interacting together in each part of the map. While it may be easier to read sometimes, as far as complexity goes its much, much more complex. From what we know DLR is even further.


From what I have seen the 三式 seem to be different then the other systems out there. They are more protected, people are more careful with them and overall I can think of many other reason one will avoid writing about them here.
Lets enjoy what we have  accessible in English, I'm happy QMDJ seems to be more open now. I think for the current time this is as good as it gets.

If some big school out there start making very huge seminars about DLR, like it is for QMDJ, I would accept that this is open to the west too now, and will start focusing on that with great joy. Yet pushing too much while we have so many other wonderful systems to perfect can't lead to much good, in my humble opinion.

Summary: I take the topic as a idea of moving away from DLR. I have seen that before in topics like this and I think we should respect it. : )

[tanpai]

@Gmuli and The-Monk,
I understand your doubts, but at the same time, I think it is important to examine some examples with two or three methods, what they actually tell us, what they agree with, and how the analyzes differ for each event. In medicine this method is”differential diagnosis.”
For example, it would be exciting to see what DLR, WWG and Yi Jing are writing about an event.

[Gmuli]

Fair enough, but since so few of us can read DLR, we can do it with QMDJ and WWG if you want.
I will be glad to provide an example, that I was using both systems to correlate with. : )

[The-Monk]

„Widely taught DLR restricts DLR users to one reading per 2 hour period.”
Why is that? You can set de software at any time!

In QMDJ we make the map depending on the time the question comes up. There are situations other maps can be used(time of birth, house build date etc.) but its rare.

In that sense, making more then 1 reading in that same 2 hour period has its restrictions. its not impossible, but it requires specific circumstances, like outside source of questions etc
Just reading another situation in the same 2 hour period doesn't seem to be reflected in the maps.  There are many ways people are attempting to do it, but in my experience it doesn't seem to work, so far.
(and I've been on that for many years now)

Since both QMDj and DLR are part of the 三式 it makes sense that DLR maps would work in similar ways. : )

This is the correct answer.

From what I have seen the 三式 seem to be different then the other systems out there. They are more protected, people are more careful with them and overall I can think of many other reason one will avoid writing about them here.

Indeed. You are correct on a few fronts:

There are numerous reasons involved for not writing more. But still primarily remains thus: Many who are learned in DLR on the highest levels, already know the incredible climb needed to reach their ability in Interpreting a Divination with DLR. It would be inappropriate to simply throw the doors wide open to allow anyone who wished to learn its methods, since many will never even get off the ground. Therefore, the DLR teacher is not only wasting the time of the learner, but also being facetious in the ability of leaners who clearly lack the qualifications needed to thrive in the study of DLR. Something that would be uncharacteristic of someone who is more englightened than others having reached one of the upper echelons of Five Arts study.

Then of course, on open online forums, we have the other issues that have plagued online forums since their inception: Pretenders, who swagger around, making much noise about their knowledge and ability whilst offering very little in return, when in fact they are fishing for the very same information they are trying to coax out from others surreptitiously to increase their own capability in the virtual and real world. Then running elsewhere under another assumed name to pretend they possessed such knowledge, and exert influence on the unfortunate who are seeking aid and encounter them. Alas, it is also precisely because of this sorry state and to prevent its continued misuse that have caused many who are well versed in many materials to refuse to provide so much detailed posts so easily and openly. I only wish this was neither the case or needed. 

Lets enjoy what we have  accessible in English, I'm happy QMDJ seems to be more open now. I think for the current time this is as good as it gets.

If some big school out there start making very huge seminars about DLR, like it is for QMDJ, I would accept that this is open to the west too now, and will start focusing on that with great joy. Yet pushing too much while we have so many other wonderful systems to perfect can't lead to much good, in my humble opinion.

Summary: I take the topic as a idea of moving away from DLR. I have seen that before in topics like this and I think we should respect it. : )

It is good that you see the current state as such.

I can provide one more important piece of information for those truly interested in DLR: DLR utilises many concepts of which you will encounter in other Five Arts. Some will be the same as those used elsewhere; Some will not be. Hence, attempting to dive into DLR before you are experienced in other Five Arts will only increase the difficulty in getting off the ground with DLR from the many concepts and ideas utilised, often confusing a learner entirely from the numerous things they are required to know and remember. Whereas a Five Arts experienced learner, will have much less to learn and need only alter a few things they already know in order to get off the ground.

Note: This doesn't mean you can't just jump into DLR. What it does mean is: If you were capable enough to learn DLR already, you would not need to ask. If you would like to learn, come back later when you're more experienced (usually also means more qualified, but not necessarily always). It's not a slight on you as a person, just a precaution so you do not waste your time and others and that you're more likely to succeed in your endeavor.

I hope this information helps some of you.

[tanpai]

@The-Monk
How old are you Monk? Have you practiced DLR, and if so, for how many years?
Or are you just writing about being able to express infinite resistance?
I haven't experienced anything like this in any forums.

[Gmuli]

Then of course, on open online forums, we have the other issues that have plagued online forums since their inception: Pretenders, who swagger around, making much noise about their knowledge and ability whilst offering very little in return, when in fact they are fishing for the very same information they are trying to coax out from others surreptitiously to increase their own capability in the virtual and real world. Then running elsewhere under another assumed name to pretend they possessed such knowledge, and exert influence on the unfortunate who are seeking aid and encounter them. Alas, it is also precisely because of this sorry state and to prevent its continued misuse that have caused many who are well versed in many materials to refuse to provide so much detailed posts so easily and openly. I only wish this was neither the case or needed. 

True. One solution for that, in my humble opinion seems to be permanence. Kevin Chans blog for example(https://kevinchanbazi.wordpress.com/), many of us are happy to link when we reference material from there, as we actually do have permanent site we can link to.
Also most of the community knows it so we know what originated from there. Even if someone use it in different context, practice shows that dedicated people will find their way to it someday.
Its not exactly what I use, but that is not a problem, the idea is its there for a long time.

Making a book is a good way... In the west we carefully follow the literature and we can see what originated where. There are online ways too.
If that same master or practitioner makes a blog or calculator, everyone in the community will be a lot more clear where it originated from and will go back there to learn more when new articles show up. But in forums it is easy to lose the original idea sometimes. We do what we can to point out the old members we learned most from, though, when we can...


In any case, if you want permanent representation of some of the ideas and rules in the systems that you feel comfortable sharing info about, we are more then happy to make a calc based on that. Its always free, to make and use, it helps the entire community and since it will show exactly what the author want to show it can always reference whatever you want it to reference also have any disclaimer you want. Can look the way you want(to the degree I can make it) and overall its your calc on our website. Made by us but by your specifications.
It can have very detailed explanation on parts, or it can just have basic calculations - up to you.

While I can't guarantee our site will always be there, we can send you the source(of your calc) if we ever close for some reason.
And we do what we can to keep the site free, will add donations to cover hosting with the new design, but even when it comes to advertisements we have a different idea(though more on that in the future). If someday we see we can't cover our hosting we will probably close instead of making it payed(at least that is the aim,currently).
And of course, it also looks better with the new design in my humble opinion!

As far as permanence go this is a good way. Another way would be to make a blog, of course. And overall we do need more from your point of view, many of us, even if not many say it all the time. If we can find a  way we can make so the whole community can learn more will be good for all I assume. : )

[tureno]

Hi all,

Abit off topic here or maybe not.I was wondering if DLR or QMDJ can be use to manipulate truth?
I find it interesting if usage can be slighty dark intention                                   

[tanpai]

The thing is, these predictive methods include a description of the situation and some suggestions.
You - the questioner does or does not act as suggested.
I am interested in which system you already know and practice?

[Dao]

[Hidden post: You need login to forum to see it.]

[tanpai]

Hi Dao,
if you were to make this reference as a joke, I could congratulate it. Translating that text is much harder than Chinese pages.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Dao, thank you for the link!  And to Tanpai, the reference that Dao provided is not a joke at all.

[tanpai]

Hi Jlim,
You just misunderstood me , I wrote "Translating that text is much harder than Chinese pages".
I've translated a lot of literature from Chinese and that's my opinion, whether or not someone wants it translate the french book. "Never say never," as the proverb says.