Influence of day of the casting versus day of the event. I can't understand it.

[Sacrar]

Hi everyone.

There is one essential aspect of the WWG system that I do not understand. It is said that the casting date is one of the most important aspects. In Jack Chiu's book it says: "Since casting is to seize the revelation of the divine power in a particular day, so the day branch of the day of casting will have determining effect onto the Vulnerable as well as all of the lines in the hexagram." And in "The Gold Yarrows" book is said: "The day branch is the master of the 6 lines". (Note: The Vulnerables is Yong Shen).

I ask myself, what is the use of valuing all the forces of the Day/Month/Year effect of the casting (Sheng, Ke, Chong, He), besides aspects like a San He formed (with Day or Month), or Kong Wan, on the lines of the hexagram to value the auspicious or inauspicious, if in the future the hexagram obtained will be affected by a Day/Month/Year different from the Day of the casting???. On the day that the event occurs for which we ask, with a known date determined, the influence of Day/Month/Year will be different (different earthly branches), changing the interpretation quite a bit or completely.

For example, in a litigation, an exam, a wedding, a trip, a work interview, a date of a sports event...(any event where we have a specific calendar date established); they are events that we know will happen on a particular date, or a particular month, or a particular week of the calendar.  The day of the casting we have a wonderful setting or configuration (ex: Yong Shen is vitalized and in conjunction (He) with to Day and Month, besides we have a San He that generates the subject line, and it is not in Void) but it turns out that the day of the event happens the opposite (the Yong Shen is influenced by Ke, Chong, Month breaker, San He broken or not formed, Kong wan, etc...), that is to say, any negative aspect that changes the initial interpretation. The opposite could also happen, the case of a hexagram that is very negatively affected by the Day/Month/Year of the casting and, however, on the date of the event the influence of the Day/Month/Year will be very good.

Then, what is more important? The day of the casting or the period of time (or specific date) when the event will take place? How to deal with the contradictions of the effects of the casting day and the effects of the event day?

I hope I've made myself clear; the subject is a bit of a mess.
Greetings to all.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Jack Chiu is correct.  The day of casting will have a determining effect onto the Yong Shen.  I must also add that the month of casting also have the same effect.  You cast the hexagram today, and therefore obtain the lines today.  Certainly effects onto the Yong Shen and all other lines are brought by today too. Valuing the (in)auspiciousness is based on today. 

if in the future the hexagram obtained will be affected by a Day/Month/Year different from the Day of the casting

Which future hexagram, Sacrar?  You seem to be talking about another hexagram that you may possibly draw/cast in the future. But that is not relevant, because you have not drawn it. 

The opposite could also happen, the case of a hexagram that is very negatively affected by the Day/Month/Year of the casting and, however, on the date of the event the influence of the Day/Month/Year will be very good.

If the Yong Shen is negatively affected, then it cannot "suddenly" turn auspicious on another date. 

Example:
My client just asked about the prospect for business partnership with an old friend.  Day of casting is Chou Day (Jan 11, 2020) and Chou Month.

Self is Wealth line with Wei Earth, so it's clashed by both Day and Month.  To keep the story simple, other lines are also not auspicious.  Does it turn suddenly positive in Wei month?  Wei is July, which is 6 months away.  Providing that she (my client) could wait, I would not advise her to join with this friend in the future month of July. 

[Sacrar]

Thank you for the reply JLim,

if in the future the hexagram obtained will be affected by a Day/Month/Year different from the Day of the casting

Which future hexagram, Sacrar?  You seem to be talking about another hexagram that you may possibly draw/cast in the future. But that is not relevant, because you have not drawn it. 

I meant that the hexagram obtained or drawn in a query, at a specific date in the future, when the event for which we ask will occur, the same hexagram will be under the influence of different month branch and day branch. In some way it is a "translation" or a projection of the future (just like it is done to look for auspicious moments in the future), we take the hexagram drawn in the present and subject it to the influence of the earthly branches that will be in force on the date in the future (when the event will occur)

An example will help you to understand it better. Let's imagine that we ask what it will be like to go to the Walt Disney theme park that we plan to do next year (we don't know yet what day/date it will be exactly). We get H. 43 drawn in Chen Month and Chen Day.


Let's take as Yong Shen the line of the Subject that comes with Offprings. The qi of the line of Yong shen that day is strong for Month and Day, as it is vitalized by Chen earth, and also bound/combines with the Day and Month (Liu He). Very auspicious, we think, will be great to go to Walt Disney park.

But it turns out that the day we finally go to Walt Disney (the day the event we had asked about happens) turns out to be a Day and Month Mao. We don't draw a new hexagram, we use the same hexagram.


Now it is the opposite of when the hexagram was drawed, because the qi of the line is Weak by Month and Day, because it is devitalized by Mao Day and Mao Month, and it is also broken (Po) by the opposition (Chong) of the Day and Month. Totally inauspicious.

then what is more important? the day the hexagram was drawn or the day the event will actually occur? The influence of the earthly branches when the hexagram was drawn or the influence of the earthly branches when the event occurs in the future?

I hope it's understood now, what I'm talking about...

[Sacrar]

This doubt really came from a real case. A girl asked if I would pass the exam to enter marketing studies. She got an H. 7


The Subject line of the hexagram is clashed by Month, but strengthened by the Day branch and at life stage is Di-wang (Career High).

But it turns out that this same hexagram on the date of examination which was 4 days later, the Subject line is still clashed by Month, but no longer supported by Day, plus Line is in Kong Wan (Void), and his life stage is Mu (Vault/Tomb). That is, on the date of the exam, when the event really will occur, for which we ask, the Subject's line will be in a worse status than on the day of casting (Clash, Vault and Kong wan)

[The-Monk]

@Sacrar

You are correct that the that a planned event occurs can impact on the reading. This is one use of WWG. However, the original WWG should already provide you the information you need to know in the first place, as well as certain information that provides further details.

1. Self/Subject line is Wealth. Wealth innately means that one has not been paying attention to schooling and has been more having fun than learning. This is already a bad sign for the person asking about education.
2. Representation of qualifications, the Parent Line sits on the Other line. This line is weak, Empty/Void, and transforms into it's own Vanishing Point. This already tells you that it will be very hard to pass.
3. The Empty/Void tells you details of timing (when things occur) and other details involved (like it isn't likely to be able to be divined and Interpreted until after the Empty/Void item becomes solid again, whether through time and the Void/Empty changes to another set, or Clash, Combine, etc.)

[Tientai ✝️]

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[Sacrar]

@Sacrar

You are correct that the that a planned event occurs can impact on the reading. This is one use of WWG. However, the original WWG should already provide you the information you need to know in the first place, as well as certain information that provides further details.

1. Self/Subject line is Wealth. Wealth innately means that one has not been paying attention to schooling and has been more having fun than learning. This is already a bad sign for the person asking about education.
2. Representation of qualifications, the Parent Line sits on the Other line. This line is weak, Empty/Void, and transforms into it's own Vanishing Point. This already tells you that it will be very hard to pass.
3. The Empty/Void tells you details of timing (when things occur) and other details involved (like it isn't likely to be able to be divined and Interpreted until after the Empty/Void item becomes solid again, whether through time and the Void/Empty changes to another set, or Clash, Combine, etc.)

She passed the exam in a very good position  .
then it seems that the original casting day setup had more influence (support of the EB Wu fire & Career High (Di-Wang) life stage)

In the hexagram when adopting the terrestrial branches of the examination date, there is an attempt by San He Yin-Wu-Xu = fire. Although according to the most commonly used rules, since wu is clashed per month and in Void it would not be formed...

Perhaps divination influenced the outcome, since I warned her that it would be a difficult exam. Also I also advised you to recite a series of mantras during the remaining 4 days of study. Knowing the future trend can modify it...

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Hi .. @all
My opinion on this case can explained the way you put a query  ..!!!
1. If Asking was " if I would pass the exam to enter marketing studies. "  without knowing the date occurring of the exam then the 1st Hexagram is good on focus ..

2 If Asking was " if I would pass the exam to enter marketing studies. " but knowing the date occurring exam then put (replacing) the stem /branch of occurring  day (Bing/Xu... on this case 4 days later ) .. as main focus of 2nd Hexagram ..

This is an alternative way ... !!
Mainly I agree with @The-Monk  ..

....

I have no experience in this, but perhaps for distant dates in time it is more inaccurate to look at the date of the event instead of the date of the casting. Perhaps for short-term events both hexagrams, with earthly branches of the casting and branches of the day of the event should be considered. i don't know...

[Tientai ✝️]

@Sacrar  hi ..
You can use this alternatively for months putting in analysis the month branch of an occurring event ..!!
Or even for  year  ..!!
And agree with you .. for month or year we must be careful due  to unstable condition ..
Interesting in noticing  On occurring exam the day Xu can clash Chen 2nd Officer line causing secret move .. combine and reinforcing 6th parent line ..

Another point of view is the connection of changed Yin child line with 5th sibling Hai line  ..

Personally I don't think void ( Kong on 1st Hexagram ) is so solid .. on this case san he of Wu fire can happen ...!!
...

[Tientai ✝️]

@Sacrar  one more thing ...
It would be better to let the girl on coin tossing ... instead of you ..!!
Thanks anyway
...

[Sacrar]

@Sacrar  one more thing ...
It would be better to let the girl on coin tossing ... instead of you ..!!
Thanks anyway
...

Mm why do you say that?   
She really used the 2-digit Remainder technique.  It is a casting method that is exposed in the book the clear cut I ching for beginners.

[The-Monk]

Mm why do you say that?   
She really used the 2-digit Remainder technique.  It is a casting method that is exposed in the book the clear cut I ching for beginners.

Ahh, this would explain a lot.

Technically speaking, the Remainder method is not even WWG but Mei Hua, since it always give you a Moving Line and will never give you more than a one Moving Line that WWG permits. This is Mei Hua having WWG attached on top of it, which could also lead to strangeness in readings such as what you experienced, since it's not really supposed to be used together.

Remember that Mei Hua always leaves you with one Moving Line, never less, never more. WWG permits no Moving Lines, or all Moving Lines.

If you're mixing the two together, you will get inconsistent results like what you found.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Perhaps divination influenced the outcome, since I warned her that it would be a difficult exam.

Is it true that the exam turns out to be difficult?  That seems to be so from the Six Animals.  At the same time, if she has studied all the standard books, the answers are actually available there.  So, standard types of questions but then quite difficult.

Is this girl very good in talking or chatty?

I was just reading out the images, but the hexagram does not seem pertinent any more.  I agree with The-Monk that Mei Hua and Liu Yao are two different systems.  I used to study Mei Hua before Liu Yao.  Nowadays, I don't use the Mei Hua type methods of raising the hexagram, such as the one that she used. 

Also I also advised you to recite a series of mantras during the remaining 4 days of study. Knowing the future trend can modify it...

That's a good tip!

[JLim (Darma W)]

2. Representation of qualifications, the Parent Line sits on the Other line. This line is weak, Empty/Void, and transforms into it's own Vanishing Point. This already tells you that it will be very hard to pass.

Do you also use the Vanishing for the opposite case, which would be from Yin Tiger to You Rooster?

Sacrar, one more thing ...
It would be better to let the girl on coin tossing ... instead of you ..!!

Agree, I tend to practise it this way.

[The-Monk]

Do you also use the Vanishing for the opposite case, which would be from Yin Tiger to You Rooster?

Yes. Although one must remember that not all things can reach a true "Vanishing Point".

For exmaple. Asking if the Weather will be Rainy, can never reach a true "Vanishing Point", since it is by nature impossible to do so whilst our planet and solar system remains as it is right now, no matter where you are.

But if say an item that has gone missing, and the Focus transforms into a "Vanishing Point", then the item is forever gone. Since this can become so, unlike the weather that cycles.

So anyone wanting to pursue the use of "Vanishing Point" should remember this; only certain topics can utilise a true "Vanishing Point" meaning, otherwise, it merely means it is temporarily gone or gone for now. This will rely on your own understanding of Five Element theory for application, but it largely follows on from basic logic. So as long as you remain true to that, you should get it to work all the time.

[Tientai ✝️]

For exmaple. Asking if the Weather will be Rainy, can never reach a true "Vanishing Point", since it is by nature impossible to do so whilst our planet and solar system remains as it is right now, no matter where you are.

But if say an item that has gone missing, and the Focus transforms into a "Vanishing Point", then the item is forever gone. Since this can become so, unlike the weather that cycles.

So anyone wanting to pursue the use of "Vanishing Point" should remember this; only certain topics can utilise a true "Vanishing Point" meaning, otherwise, it merely means it is temporarily gone or gone for now. This will rely on your own understanding of Five Element theory for application, but it largely follows on from basic logic. So as long as you remain true to that, you should get it to work all the time.

Please @The-Monk  some help to understand this logic ...
On above example one can use as Yongshen You metal Parent on 6th line .. to apply for 12 Life Stage Law ..?

You Metal is on Si Serpent as 1. Birth  "Chang Sheng" ... whilst Yin Wood is on 10  Vanishing "Jue " Stage ..??

Furthermore can deepen much more ? .. par example Day branch Wu fire as 2. Bath "mu yu" ? ..
This has any value impact on Yongshen ?
Thanks ..
Tientai