Gate of hell and heaven in Bazi astrology

[haha25]

Hi guys,

I would like to know what means that dog and dragon are the gate of hell and heaven?
what does it mean if you have dog or dragon in your bazi?
what are the effects of this gate in your bazi?
what if its located in your year, month, day or hour pillar?
I read that dog and dragon don't work as noblemans in bazi.
does any body know about this in detail?
I would really appreciate it if you could provide me with a deep analysis and explanation about it.

Thank you

[JLim (Darma W)]

I read that dog and dragon don't work as noblemans in bazi.

If you study Shen Sha or Symbolic Stars in Bazi, that is correct.  Out of the twelve Branches, only Dog and Dragon (Xu and Chen) are not defined a Nobleman's Star for any Daymaster (DM)


Tianyi Guiren = Nobleman's Star

what does it mean if you have dog or dragon in your bazi?
what are the effects of this gate in your bazi?
what if its located in your year, month, day or hour pillar?

What does it mean?  We don't know, because we need to analyze the whole chart. Is it inauspicious if you have a lot of Chen and Xu?  We don't know.  At least what you can do is not worrying.   

And I can give you an example of a very noble chart with Dog and Dragon (Xu and Chen):

Al Pacino, Wu Daymaster:


He has been a very successful actor with so many awards and accolades throughout life.  If you think that LP Chen or Xu will hit him, then that is not true, either.  He was in LP Xu from 1992 till 2002, and in 1993 he won the most prestigious Academy Award for Best Actor.

If you look at his chart, as a Wu DM he does not have Wei or Chou as Tianyi Guiren in his chart.  But he is still very noble in his field.

Note:
I used to study Shen Sha in great details.  Since the day I studied Mangpai (Blindman), I was shown that very very few Shen Sha actually work, and I have myself seen so many charts for verification.  That's the reason that I can quickly produce that chart as an example.

[JLim (Darma W)]

John Holmes:


One Chen and one Xu: this actor is not noble. 

American porno star who was reputed to have 13" of qualification and who once boasted of having sex with 14,000 women. An ordinary guy otherwise, he soon became the poster boy of the burgeoning porn-movie industry.  He was charged with various crimes, including burglary, theft and murder.  He contracted AIDS and died due to a cardiac issue at the young age of 43.  (Source: astro-databank)

[haha25]

Hello jlim,
why is it noble because it has many xu and chen?
is this chart noble october 22 1940 at 20:00 pm??
I also wanted to ask what does the dog and dragon do if they are unfavorable?
for example for my chart 15 october 1987 at 14:25 pm
ding  ding  geng ding
wei   you   xu     mao
because I had life threatening event
in 14 of june 2014 at 4:00 am
I felt really bad this day and had problems
its
geng bing  geng  jia
yin    chen  wu    wu
before you analized my chart and said that wood and fire are favorable.
But, I wonder why Bing Chen is so bad??
I mean if my chart didn't have Xu, I guess it wouldn't be that unfavorable.
What does Xu in my chart do? and it's in my month pillar. so when I turn 33 years old the day pillar influence will start
and Xu won't do anything again?


Thank you

[haha25]

Hi,

Is there anybody who can help me with this please?

[J27945]

I read that dog and dragon don't work as noblemans in bazi.

If you study Shen Sha or Symbolic Stars in Bazi, that is correct.  Out of the twelve Branches, only Dog and Dragon (Xu and Chen) are not defined a Nobleman's Star for any Daymaster (DM)


Tianyi Guiren = Nobleman's Star

what does it mean if you have dog or dragon in your bazi?
what are the effects of this gate in your bazi?
what if its located in your year, month, day or hour pillar?

What does it mean?  We don't know, because we need to analyze the whole chart. Is it inauspicious if you have a lot of Chen and Xu?  We don't know.  At least what you can do is not worrying.   

And I can give you an example of a very noble chart with Dog and Dragon (Xu and Chen):

Al Pacino, Wu Daymaster:


He has been a very successful actor with so many awards and accolades throughout life.  If you think that LP Chen or Xu will hit him, then that is not true, either.  He was in LP Xu from 1992 till 2002, and in 1993 he won the most prestigious Academy Award for Best Actor.

If you look at his chart, as a Wu DM he does not have Wei or Chou as Tianyi Guiren in his chart.  But he is still very noble in his field.

Note:
I used to study Shen Sha in great details.  Since the day I studied Mangpai (Blindman), I was shown that very very few Shen Sha actually work, and I have myself seen so many charts for verification.  That's the reason that I can quickly produce that chart as an example.

Thanks for sharing, a lot of learning points in this example.

: )

[Rapanui]

And I can give you an example of a very noble chart with Dog and Dragon (Xu and Chen):

Al Pacino, Wu Daymaster:

It need to notice that he has THREE Kui Gang - Master Spirit Star: year+month+day and there isn't Zheng Guan or Pian Guan in his chart.
 

[JLim (Darma W)]

Wu Horse is Zheng Guan (Direct Officer).  Do you mean no Zheng Cai or Pian Cai in the chart?

Anyway, this Shen Sha turns inauspicious when there is a clash.  There are two clashes: Day Pillar-Month Pillar, and Day Pillar-Year Pillar.

[J27945]

2024, should be risky year for his chart.

[JLim (Darma W)]

Are you referring to chart of haha25 in Reply #3, or chart of Al Pacino in Reply #6?

[Rapanui]

Wu Horse is Zheng Guan (Direct Officer).

DM is Wu yang Earth so ........
Wu Horse as Fire is Zheng Yin (Resource) not Zheng Guan.
Wood is Guan so Zheng Guan would be HS Yi or EB Mao.
 

[JLim (Darma W)]

Hi Rapanui, sorry about the confusion with the Ten Gods    Al Pacino's chart does not contain Zheng Guan or Pian Guan

Anyway, this Shen Sha turns inauspicious when there is a clash.  There are two clashes: Day Pillar-Month Pillar, and Day Pillar-Year Pillar.

Any comment on the clash?

[Rapanui]

Hi Rapanui, sorry about the confusion with the Ten Gods

No matter....anyone makes mistakes. 

Any comment on the clash?

Some words from traditional BaZi point of view.
1 - His DM yang Earth is very very strong so this chart is Earth Structure with Earth, Fire and Metal as favourable elements.
2 - all four pillars are yang so his personality is very strong and yin elements are only in hidden stems.
3 - EB Chen is Kong Wang (Void) so the clash Chen-Xu is cancelled and no opening of tombs.
4 - Chen is KW and also Hua Gai and Hong Yan Sha. In SMTH is written: "Kong Wang for Hua Gai means DM becomes outstandingly smart". I think that Hong Yan Sha is also good for him as actor.
5 - Geng is Eating God for him. Two Geng are in year and month so this means his Output is seen not only in his country but also in the world.
6 - EB Wu in hour pillar is General Star, cause HP is connected with his work it means he can reach high position by his job.
7 - hellokitty in old fivearts forum wrote: "clash between year EB and day EB Is very positive and have alot of energy towards career, a lot of vitality." I think that in his case is true.
 
But .... what you can say from Mangpai point of view about work processes in his chart?
 

[JLim (Darma W)]

2 - all four pillars are yang so his personality is very strong and yin elements are only in hidden stems.

This point I can agree most, and this is also used in Mangpai. 

4 - Chen is KW and also Hua Gai and Hong Yan Sha. In SMTH is written: "Kong Wang for Hua Gai means DM becomes outstandingly smart". I think that Hong Yan Sha is also good for him as actor.

Do you not use the formula that Hua Gai in Shen Sha is calculated based on the Day Pillar?  If yes, then Chen is not Hua Gai.

3 - EB Chen is Kong Wang (Void) so the clash Chen-Xu is cancelled and no opening of tombs.
7 - hellokitty in old fivearts forum wrote: "clash between year EB and day EB Is very positive and have alot of energy towards career, a lot of vitality." I think that in his case is true.

No. 3 and 7 are contradictory, because based on what you said in no. 3, the clash is cancelled.

But .... what you can say from Mangpai point of view about work processes in his chart?

Important Mangpai point: Based on what you said on no. 3 about no opening of tombs, this means the Wealth Tomb in Chen is not accessible, and that would be bad for wealth.  Al Pacino is not a billionaire but he's worth a hefty US$ 165 million now.

[Rapanui]

Do you not use the formula that Hua Gai in Shen Sha is calculated based on the Day Pillar?  If yes, then Chen is not Hua Gai.

Most of masters use Hua Gai calculated also from Year Pillar.

3 - EB Chen is Kong Wang (Void) so the clash Chen-Xu is cancelled and no opening of tombs.

No. 3 and 7 are contradictory, because based on what you said in no. 3, the clash is cancelled.

My fault, I shortened the sequence, it should be: "If Kong Wang is involved in a clash, the effect of the clash is cancelled. Impact of Chong is cancelled, this means there is no weakening/damage of EB, HS, DHHS, HHS and no opening of tomb."
So ..the effect of clash is cancelled but the clash still exists.

Important Mangpai point: Based on what you said on no. 3 about no opening of tombs, this means the Wealth Tomb in Chen is not accessible, and that would be bad for wealth.

But two Chen are in Self-punishment so two Tombs of Water (his Wealth) are opened.