Bazi..Where to start?

[Ari]

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[JLim (Darma W)]

Bazi is a tool that covers the big paths of a person's life.  It's a birth chart reading.  Which aspect of life are you interested in looking at for this Xin Metal DM?  Overall quality of chart looks pretty good to me. 

I see that you stated "solar time", and this is the time that I work with in Bazi.  But just for confirmation, what is the city and clock time of birth?  You can send me a pm if it's too private to be exposed in a public forum.

[Ari]

Thank you, I have sent you a PM.

What paths of a persons life are there? And how are they differentiated in the Bazi?

Edit: Wow, just understanding that "Xin Metal DM (day master?) " is important already helped... I feel like a noob 

[JLim (Darma W)]

As far as love relationship goes, the current Luck Pillar Bing Zi is not the time for a marriage to occur.  Spouse Palace is Si.  Si and Zi put each other into Jue Qi phase.  This is despite the fact that for a female Xin DM, Bing is the Spouse Star.

That's one reason.  The other reason is the other Xin Stem in the Hour that combines with this Bing.  It's as if another girl combines with "this man", although this man may not exist yet.

You have better luck for a permanent relationship in the next Luck Pillar.

[Ari]

I see?.. thats what I would like to say. But I am very confused.
Thank you for taking on this case though.

would you kindly explain what a luck pillar is? and does it appear randomly?
Sorry..
If its not too much trouble, could you explain the meaning between heavenly and earthly and hidden signs? Just a very basic explanation would suffice.
 it is called 8 characters. - So these 8 hour, day , month year represent different elements (heavenly) on top and different signs in bottom (earthly)
What does hidden stems stand for? why heavenly and earthly?
And what is the difference between general stars and symbolic stars? what do the stars stands for?
A few keywords would be enough for me to start with. I have read a tiny bit on the stars but it just confused me.
I make a slight connotation with tarot cards on this, with both positive and negative meaning depending on the combination.
Is it the same with those stars? Do they have a meaning for bazi or should I ignore them first and focus on the general 8 signs?
Help very much appreciated...

thank you, Master JLim.

Edit: in the meanwhile I will just dilligently look up the terms you used to describe your explanation.

Edit2: Sorry... its too embarassing to admit this, but ... so far most relationships were not fated for me - because of ..."another girl" in the best case and "more than one another girl combining" with my person of interest. *sigh* these words ring too true...

[Chat time]

Hi Ari, sorry to stop you there...

I think your questions is too broad and difficult to explain. Just know that the five elements are talking about Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury, Mars, Venus. The movements of these five planets influence our behaviors and decisions making.

I fully understand your dilemma and this is where 95% of people gave up learning Bazi. I recommend the following rules...

1) Don't try to make sense of the reading. (What Jlim did for you up there is not a 1 day skill. Doesn't mean that you see people with similar setting will be having the same problems as you. Many factors comes into play. Strength, season, luck pillar, logics, common sense, etc.)

2) Start with memorizing the 10 heavenly stem and their function. (Jia Yang wood Combine Ji Ying earth, Ren Yang water attack Yang Bing fire, etc etc...)

3) Memorize 12 earthly branches. Directional combination, 3 combinations, 2 combination, clash, punishment, etc. REMEMBER them by heart!

4) Learn palm method for both heavenly stem and earthly branches. (youtube etc...)

5) Understand seasons (Wood is strong in spring, exhausted in summer, dead in autumn, incubating in winter, etc...)

At this point you will still be clueless what is all these about and if you still haven't give up learning, THEN you start to look at bazi strength.

6) Understand 得令，得地， 得势. (spend more time in this because if you cannot get this right, you can never read bazi.)

7) Memorized 10 Gods namely 比劫，食伤，财才，官杀，印枭.

At this point you had already spent 3 weeks to a month with 3-4 hrs each day memorizing things that doesn't make any sense. If you pressed on, congratulations, you are on your way to be the 5%. Now you can pick up any books and you will find that it's easier to understand. You are not ready to read bazi yet. Bazi learning is a journey that most probably you will never arrived at your desired destination. You will keep wanting more and trying to reach further. Point 1-7 is just merely building a vehicle so that you can start moving on its path.

9) Now you have the basic skills and functions of Bazi, I want you to focus on topic. E.g - google - famous people died of pneumonia. Spend a few days look at each persons bazi, establish their DM strength, look at when they start falling ill, when they died, etc. DON'T look at what kind of sickness yet. Keep looking and you will see a pattern forming. Don't get excited and don't start going around telling people when they are going to die...LOL. Now move on to the next topic, e.g List of famous people divorced and do the same...

10) Do not mix things together. If you are looking at someone why they became rich on a certain point in their life, focus on it and don't go look at their marriage. It's because the reading can be contradicting. A person can be striking rich but at the same time broke up with their marriage. A person can be obtaining huge fame and becoming sick at the same time.

By now you had already easily spent 6 months on bazi and you still don't have the confidence to read bazi for people. Trust me don't, you would probably be wrong. You can start discussing and debating bazi with people. You can start reading your own bazi on a DAILY BASIS. See, it's a journey. A very far one. You have to be very stubborn to pressed on with this hobby because it can take a long time before it is rewarding.   

And you think you are on your way with your journey and this is the time I have some bad news for you on the next post.

Cheers...     

[Ari]

Hello Chat time.

Thank you for your lengthy explanation. Iappreciate it and I do understand where you are coming from, and yes, I have quite a few questions.

For me its not about "giving up or not" at this point - and its not that i cant find the basic info by a bit of googling.
But all in all that is just a flood of information from where not every information is believable and some even contradicting.
Thats why I am here to ask.
First, I want to ask myself "start or not" - I dont like half finished things overall.
My Interest/Intrigue for Bazi rooted in translated chinese literature (belletristics) that I am reading about - basically I am a fan of asian culture.
So far I am just looking into Bazi because its a new thing I have experienced/learned from there.

Not making sense - I can live with the connections of everything not making sense. Its like with Tarot, you learn to "see" slowly.
BUT. I wont be able to live without the basics. Its like with school  - some just memorize the textbooks and get good grades, while not understanding what they are writing about.
For others, they will only get good grades, if they have a purpose behind their learning.
I want to find my purpose, thats all. If I dont find it, then fine - i can of course memorize books after books but I wont make it far.
Thats why I have many questions - I do not expect an answer to every of it, but if i can find that spark somewhere I will be motivated to pull trough.

Im thankful for your explanation, but it will be helpful *after* I have decided to actually pursue Bazi methods.
So far, what would help me is maybe a good source of for example
"where does bazi come from and what do the different terms stand for?"

If you want to read... you first need to know what the letters mean... I am not even talking about the words yet.

[Chat time]

Yep... that's the problem. See bazi learning in this way, it's like an onion with so many layers to peel. Once you are exposed with information on the inner layers without first peeling the outer layer you will be stuck.

E.g - People read Zi Wu clash signs of adultery acts and they start looking for this clash. First, one have to ask, what DM is it? Metal or Wood? Yin or Yang, Zi clash Wu or Wu clash Zi? Clash with spouse palace, month pillar, or luck pillar? What's the heavenly stem of this Zi or Wu? Zi wu clash signs of adultery acts is the inner layer but one has to first peel the outer layers in order to correctly identify this prediction. Many people investigated and found that Zi Wu clash didn't result in adultery acts and started to doubt themselves or the integrity of Bazi readings.

This is why Bazi learning has no short cut. Everyone has to start with a dumb brain to memorize things without understanding at first and slowly things will fall into place. Things start to get bad when you try to make sense of it (happens to every beginner). This male bazi spouse palace clash with year pillar and his wife didn't get along well with his parents and you goes ahhhh... it make sense! Nooooo... I can guarantee that the next person you see doesn't have this problem.

It's much easier for me to learn bazi than you because I can read chinese. It's going to be a uphill battle for you. On the flip side of the coin, if you pressed on and succeed, you will be such a rare individual in the western world. I came across Caucasian claiming that they are the experts of these ancient art which is a bold claim! Read a bit on their blog and seriously doubted so.

I hope you decided to learn Bazi. As for where does bazi comes from, I believe a bit of wiki you can find the history of it. What does the different term stands for? Don't care. Just get started by knowing Xin Metal DM Hurting Officer is Ren water. Hurting officer function is to attack direct officer, combine 7k and support indirect wealth. Indirect wealth is money from indirect source? No no no... it is just its name. You can call him john or tom just like water element is not talking about water that we drink or rain... it's just its name happened to be water.

Let me prove my point. Taking Xin DM as example again. Strong DM due to season and surrounded by resource, month HS is HO. One glance we know that this person is not very bright and can be stubborn at times. Surprisingly he did well in his college exams in 2011 because Xin HS cured DR attack with HO and Mao EB combined Xu cured the existing Chen Xu clash. Next year he's entering Jia Zi LP and what does it tells you?

See my point? If you don't get your basics right, the above information is just a load of BS to you. It only make sense when you know that by DR it means Direct resource and you have to know it by heart that Xin DM DR is Wu earth. If you need to cross check to know that earthly branch Wu Wu is self punishment then you are too slow to absorb the waves and waves of information out there.   

I know that you might decide not to embark on this journey but I hope my post will help other readers too.

Cheers   

[Rapanui]

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[Ari]

Well.. I havent decided yet. My initial spark for Bazi isnt to try to divine from it, but just to understand more about what stands for what in Bazi. Its a bit hidden overall.
 -

I did start with the calculators, because they were the easiest available tools to me right now, and also did not contradict each other much - unlike the articles about Bazi meanings etc. some talked about different things than others. "strong and weak" were terms, then the "five elements and five elements suppression"
Honestly, I still havent figured out what strong and weak bazi means in general. Okay, its about having a lot of the same element? Or ... is it about having a lot of yin or yang? Yes, for now I took it as it is, but it 'sticks' better if I understand the things first, honestly.

As you said, chinese natives have an easier access to this than western. I prefer to read all literature in their native language, but I doubt I will learn to read more than some basic signs in chinese.
Also, I didnt quite get your explanations -
So, let me use your words - so far all of the example of divination used was a load of BS to me. I dont understand any of them.  So I cant reply or comment on it indepth, but let me react to one of them: 

your sentence:
Xin Metal DM Hurting Officer is Ren water. Hurting officer function is to attack direct officer, combine 7k and support indirect wealth.

Even if it is not important for reading the Bazi and you just told me 7k+HO = support indirect wealth like a formula.
Yes i can just take it, its fine in itself, and be happy to see this pattern another time somewhere-- nope.
 
what I ask myself (unfiltered, dont need to answer that, just be aware):
"Ok I know Xin metal DM but - What is ren water How did it suddenly appear?" "Does it have a meaning in standalone? Where can I look it up?"
 then: "What is Hurting Officer, and how did it get here?" then: "I have read about 7k as Seven Killings.. but wait, where do you find (see) them?"

Same with JLims explanation - I remember my mind's first question was : "wait --- whats a luck pillar?" Ive gone, googled and found em , yeah and now I know its a 10 year period. But I'm lacking deeper knowledge. Its okay if I dont understand the changing things ( like the luck pillars itself and their connections and the daily things)
I would love to know about the luck pillar though.

There are also the unchanging ones - Birthyear, day, month, hour. - and the 8 characters from them - Is that not the basic from where to go and try to understand a bit of how this works?

you see, it might be complicated in itself, have a lot of meanings and so on - but im not intimidated by that part -
- because I am very sure people that are exposed to Bazi daily just take them as normal vocabulary terms they either learnt by heart, or know one of the meanings/some of the meanings from and thus have a connection to these terms they use.
Now, put me an "alien" to Ba-Zi in the mix and wheee - Scotty, we have a language problem here.


what is in the normal wiki articles is a good start but too meagre...

[Chat time]

your sentence:
Xin Metal DM Hurting Officer is Ren water. Hurting officer function is to attack direct officer, combine 7k and support indirect wealth.

Even if it is not important for reading the Bazi and you just told me 7k+HO = support indirect wealth like a formula.
Yes i can just take it, its fine in itself, and be happy to see this pattern another time somewhere-- nope.

I said combine 7k and support indirect wealth not 7k+HO = support indirect wealth. If you first ignore the reason but instead memorized the formula of (in this case Xin DM HO is Ren) Ren attacks Bing, Combine with Ding and Support Yi, then you will not read it as 7k+HO = support indirect wealth. As a Xin DM, DO is Bing, 7k is Ding and IW is Yi.

All I'm trying to say is, it's much easier to just clueless memorized these things mentioned previous post 1-7 then you start asking what is luck pillar. At this point you just have to know that LP governs 10 years and Yang DM for guys is moving forward from Bazi's month pillar and if Yin DM is reverse from month pillar. Trust me, it will be much easier to understand later. Searching for answer now like why DR meets HO they will attack or why Yin DM for guys LP will reverse is going to cause you so much more wasted time.

I googled "Bazi 10 Gods" and got this site: http://bazisifu.com/blog/ it might not be much information but just an example the abundance of information out there. Until you fully memorized the 10 heavenly stems and 12 earthly branches and their functions, I advise don't start reading those article that explaining how to decode bazi... it will not make any sense to you.

[Chat time]

Everyone started learning will face language problem. Chinese or not.

甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸 is just like abcdefghijk. If you put ace together is means something. If you put jki it doesn't make sense.
So, 甲乙wood, 丙丁fire, 戊己earth, 庚辛metal 壬癸water... 甲己， 乙庚， 丙辛， 丁壬 ＆ 戊癸 is combine.
甲丁戊辛壬乙丙己庚癸 is support and 甲戊壬丙庚，乙己癸丁辛 is attack. That's all for 10 heavenly stems. The rules that matters.

Sometimes in the forum I read people saying that e.g "I'm moving my son's study table near the fireplace so he can absorb more fire energies".
"I need Xu earth to balance my bazi, Xu means dog on animal sign and I'm getting myself a pet dog, what breed is better?" 

This is the classical example of people not getting their basics right and jumping in bizarre conclusions. Write "sugar" on a piece of paper and lick it... tell me does it taste sweet?

[NewMan]

Sometimes in the forum I read people saying that e.g "I'm moving my son's study table near the fireplace so he can absorb more fire energies".
"I need Xu earth to balance my bazi, Xu means dog on animal sign and I'm getting myself a pet dog, what breed is better?" 

This is the classical example of people not getting their basics right and jumping in bizarre conclusions. Write "sugar" on a piece of paper and lick it... tell me does it taste sweet?

The above belong to fengshui not bazi. They are trying to attract relevant energy into their life. Much like spells and other invocation. Does it work? Well that's depend on the skills and connection of the person who cast it.

[NewMan]

@Ari
i would strongly recommend you to get "Essential of four pillars of Destiny" by Goh Guan Leong. It cover all the basic terms you see in this forum.

[Chat time]

The above belong to fengshui not bazi. They are trying to attract relevant energy into their life. Much like spells and other invocation. Does it work? Well that's depend on the skills and connection of the person who cast it.

Not saying that fengshui doesn't work but trying to say common sense needed to be practice.  I have yet to see any skillful person can cast a spell making an individual bazi's at a very dark point in life suddenly became rich and all problems settled. Most of them are well verse in bazi and an individual approached them at low point in life, they can see that the person's luck will change for the better in few months. These are the clients they will so much cling on to till the point of even providing free service. After the cast of spell and next few months later the client luck changes for the better... so it is the spell or the original luck at play here?

Almost the entire western hemisphere is fengshui-free setup and you don't see them doing worst than the eastern hemisphere. It's an art of manipulating the flow of Qi and if you are living on a 8th story apartment and someone tells you to put a toad figurine facing the door and your money luck will come rolling in... that's a big red flag!

Common sense is an underrated value in the metaphysics world.