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Offline tanpai

Liu Yao and tumors
« on: December 19, 2019, 11:18:48 AM »
A man seeks to measure the disease
Source:Facebook 免費免責-納甲六爻
This hexagram measures one's illness, and uses Shiji as a god.
Lin Qinglong main pain, so  the disease causes pain. This line is in the center of the kan-gua. The first line  brother Chen was the Yuanshen. and was injured.by  卯木,
combination of injuries to the hands and feet,. (the third Line is the thigh)
Brother Chentu is near the White Tiger, and is the main disease, and also the blood.
There is a problem with the blood vessels on the legs?.
 Gou Chen is tied to a Self line, swollen or cancer of body part. based on the analysis just now. The swelling and stumbling of Gou Chenzhu can be extended to blockage.
It can be determined that there is a hemangioma on the legs, he wants to go to have surgery.

Offline Sacrar

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2019, 07:31:48 PM »
Hi @tanpai  Month and day pillar? There are no lines of change?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 07:51:31 PM by Sacrar »

Online Tientai

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Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2019, 09:22:04 PM »
Code: [Select]
A man seeks to measure the disease
Month: You, Day: Xin/Hai, Void: Yin & Mao

 Gradual Progress-Return Oul-Tomb-Xun-Gua - 53 Family Members-Inner-Gen-Gua - 37
6 Animals/Hiding Spirit
 Serpent               Officer Mao   -  O             - 
 Qi Lin   Wife    Zi   Parent  Si    -                - 
 Bird                  Sibling Wei  - -              - -
 Dragon                Child   Shen  -  S             - 
 Tortoise              Parent  Wu   - -              - -
 Tiger                 Sibling Chen  X  Officer Mao   - 

                       Stable                   
« Last Edit: December 19, 2019, 09:40:04 PM by Tientai »

Offline Sacrar

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2019, 10:54:50 PM »
Ok, this would be that...


Offline Gmuli

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 10:03:56 AM »
Sacrar:
The day stem is Xin, so the void is different.
Nearest date with this combination was 11 September 2019, we can add that.

Lets try to unpack this then. : )
The way its written makes it very difficult to read ..

Quote
This hexagram measures one's illness, and uses Shiji as a god.

Measuring ones illness suggest the Officer line may be important here. Yet Shiji in context of the Five Arts doesn't seem to be any of the relations. Doesn't seem to be any of the gods either(as almost always then include some form of shen神)

Bringing the interesting question what is Shiji and what does it have to do with illness.
Looking at terminology used in Bazi and Yi Jing the only Shiji I can find is the Month Commander.

That is written like this 史记(shi ji)
It seems important point in reading here will be month commander. None of my WWG calcs calculate it, as I have never seen anyone using it for Yi Jing. Yet the old bazi calc will do it, based on 子平真诠评注, so if we use that for that date, we can see the Month Commander is Geng stem.

As it doesn't seem used anywhere in the following part of the reading, I guess it doesn't matter anyway. As of course, using Geng in here, will be challenging, as Liu Yao works primary with branches, after all. : )


Since there doesn't seem to be any connection from the Month Commander to this Liu Yao reading, it seems very likely what is meant by Shiji is something we know by another name. Since the question is for illness it would make sense to be the Officer, yet there is no indication the Officer line is used in any way in the rest of the reading.



Quote
Lin Qinglong main pain, so  the disease causes pain.

The term lin qinglong , seems to be some very rarely mentioned, in all of google there is only one page where its mentioned together with "Liu Yao" for a reading.

And in there it gives the impression its a symbolic star.
It explained as the opposite of Wenchang(at least in the question they are reading). Since Wenchang is a bazi symbolic star, it makes sense lin qinglong is as well and maybe we can try to calculate it if we see how wenchang is calculated and just find the opposite, however all that doesn't seem used anywhere other then here and involves a lot of guessing.

Here is the part of the other reading:

Quote
The egg wood itself is Wenchang, and Lin Qinglong is the opposite of Wenchang, so the doctoral degree is obtained. Because the east is the coffin, the oriental green dragon, and the father’s soil is the southeast direction, so the Wenchang matchup, the school’s official ghosts are also on fire. southeast.


Quote
This line is in the center of the kan-gua.
Now, at first glance there doesn't seem to be any kan gua anywhere around(kan is water, gua is trigram or hexagram). Yet if we work with Nuclear Trigrams, then we can make Kan Gua. Since there are no explanation why that is applied or what its used for, can't do much with it other then note they seem to think it matters.


Quote
The first line  brother Chen was the Yuanshen. and was injured.by  卯木,
combination of injuries to the hands and feet,. (the third Line is the thigh)

Finally, something that we can actually see in the Hexagram and recognize as valid for this type of reading.
Now, chen is injured by Mao. Why Chen is Yuanshen, is unclear, so lets just say that he is asking for a friend or someone else. Chen turns to Mao, Wood controls Earth, all seems clear in this sentence. Wood is strong, Earth is weak, seems to explain stuff.

Quote
Brother Chentu is near the White Tiger, and is the main disease, and also the blood.
There is a problem with the blood vessels on the legs?.

This seems clear as well.


Quote
Gou Chen is tied to a Self line, swollen or cancer of body part.

It seems they are considering Water combo here(Shen <> Zi <> Chen) as otherwise would be challenging to see why Chen would connect to the Self line. Unless they ment that Chen combines with the Month Branch, although Month Branch and "Self line" seems very far away from each other. How Chen combining with Self line shows cancer or swollen body part I guess we will never know either. : )


Quote
The swelling and stumbling of Gou Chenzhu can be extended to blockage.

Again  Gou Chenzhu isn't mention anywhere in context of Liu Yao. In google or other search engine I am familiar with.
Again suggesting that its either another name or way of writting of something familiar, or its some obscure symbolic star that we don't even have in the app.


Overall it seems interesting case however the way its presented makes it impossible to read for most people. I have doubts it will be a lot better for people that know Chinese as we don't have the Chinese characters.

From the part that seems readable the rules they use seem to be partially recognizable, partially unusual.

The 3th line as  the thigh, also makes sense but they seem to be jumping from reading the illness on line 1 as sibling, to reading the Self line, ignoring the actual Officer line through the whole time.
And bringing the idea that combination(how they arrived at the conclusion that we will have this type of combination active here is unclear as well) will show cancer is some very bold idea, that is easy to disprove in my experience.

Its interesting example.
Very difficult to read without the Chinese Characters for the part that isn't translated, however (lin qinglong, and shiji etc.)
With the rest that we have, its interesting approach and while some parts seems very different then the rules I use, the essence and the end result would be the same(Chen turning to Mao in this case).

Although I would focus a lot more on the Officer line as well(the original one). Suggesting that in 3 days, when Mao is out of void the illness will come back stronger and stuff like that. And the cancer thing from combination I don't think works like that, even if we had reason to think that this combination will be active in this circumstances.


Offline The-Monk

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 10:55:53 AM »
Having read the translation, I will say it is merely a bad translation. There is nothing special involved with what the original content was that Liu Yao users would not already know at acceptable levels already.

"lin qinglong" is actually "sitting upon/arriving on" the Green/Azure Dragon.
"kan-gua" is supposed to be Gen Gua (Earth).

But they have not translated it properly and retained or deliberately used confusing phoenitcal words in place of the translation (for example, we see 卯木 retained in the post, but we don't see the rest appropriately retaining their Chinese labels for clarity). This is actually prevalent in quite a few of their posts when you look at them.

Offline ren

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 11:10:23 AM »
Gmuli, The Monk, All,

I ask the Poster to share the actual Chinese text as the English text is very difficult to follow.

If one looks at the Facebook area mentioned as  the source - All text is in Chinese. Facebook has a link which will provide a translation, which is fair to useless. I did not try to locate original case study text on Facebook.

I agree Lin = 临 - is at, arrives at, etc.
I thought shi may refer to 时 - hour. But provided chart casting does not give the hour pillar / branch.

Best to maybe wait for actual Chinese text.

ren

Offline The-Monk

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2019, 11:24:07 AM »
You tell me if this matches:

Quote
再例,酉月辛亥日 (旬空:寅卯),一男子求测疾病,得风山渐变风火家人。
螣蛇       官鬼辛卯木 ━━━ 应   
勾陈 妻财丙子水 父母辛巳火 ━━━     
朱雀       兄弟辛未土 ━ ━     
青龙       子孙丙申金 ━━━ 世   
玄武       父母丙午火 ━ ━     
白虎       兄弟丙辰土 ━ ━  ×→ 官鬼己卯木
   此卦测自己病,以世爻为用神。世爻得月比扶旺相,见日辰亥水为病地,说明世爻有病。临青龙,青龙主痛,所以可以判断本人因为疾病而疼痛。
   初爻兄弟辰土为元神,动而被变爻回头克,元神被伤,可以当病看,此爻化出官鬼,也可以把此爻当病看,元神化空化破,也可以当病看,独发之爻也可以把它当病来看,所以这个爻就是焦点。
   初爻为脚,兄弟也为腿脚,又兄弟动化官,符合手脚之伤的组合,而世爻在三爻,三爻为大腿,所以综合判断可以是腿脚上的疾病。
   兄弟辰土临白虎,白虎主疾病,也主血液,辰土为财库,财为水,财主血液,水也可以主血液,辰土水库就可以理解为装血液的血管,所以就可以判断是腿脚上血管出了问题。忌神父母巳火临勾陈暗动克合世爻,忌神可以代表疾病,合表示疾病缠身。勾陈为肿胀,综合刚才的分析,可以判断腿脚上有血管瘤。实际上正是腿上血管瘤,想做手术。
   也许有人会问,官鬼卯木月破空亡,能克辰土吗?这个官鬼卯木得日生为旺,99年实空实破,临白虎主手术,此人在99年因为不能行走曾经做过一次手术。
  也许有人问,父母巳火暗动克世为什么不用来取信息判断疾病?这是因为元神独发,所以卦的中心就转移到了这个地方。而父母巳火虽然算暗动,但日月不扶助,力量比较小,有病也不是主要的了。不过要是取信息,仍然有信息存在。此卦为艮宫卦,艮为鼻子,五爻也为鼻子,勾陈主肿胀,巳火为水的绝地,财为鼻涕,水也可以主黏液,巳火绝财,就是没有鼻涕,勾陈主肿胀、勾绊,可以引申为堵塞,这样分析就可以把这个象取出来了。实际上他鼻子肿得不通。

A lot of information has been left out, and many of the translation very off or misleading in what it means in English. Again, if you check older posts, it's very prevalent.

Offline The-Monk

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 11:49:26 AM »
Quote
一男子求测疾病

A man seeks to measure the disease

The-Monk: A very different meaning altogether between the Chinese and English translation there.

Technically, it should simply read as "A male requests information about their illness"

---

Source:Facebook 免費免責-納甲六爻

Believe it or not, it did not originate on Facebook but copied onto it for analysis.

---

Quote
此卦测自己病,以世爻为用神。世爻得月比扶旺相,见日辰亥水为病地,说明世爻有病。临青龙,青龙主痛,所以可以判断本人因为疾病而疼痛。

This hexagram measures one's illness, and uses Shiji as a god.
Lin Qinglong main pain, so  the disease causes pain.

A more appropriate translation would be:
This reading is about asking ones own illness, so it uses the Self Line (世爻) as the Useful/Use God (用神). The Self Line has support from the Month, but looking at the Day it (the Self Line) is found to be sitting on the Illness stage (Twelve Stage), which tells us plainly that the person asking (Self Line) has an Illness.
(Since the Self Line is) Sitting on the Azure/Green Dragon, and the Azure/Green Dragon represents Pain, we can deduce that this person is suffering pain from having this illness.

The-Monk: Hexagram is also a correct word, but inappropriate use here. Since 卦 within the context of itself during a reading, is simply a reading, not a Hexagram unless it is specifically talking about one of the 64 Hexagrams or something remarkable about the Hexagram in question.

Again, whilst the original provided translate keeps some of the information, the details are wildly off within context of what is to be conveyed; especially the critical information that leads you to the concluding outcome.

---

Unfortunately I am out of time at this moment, but will be back later to translate the rest if others want this. But I hope this illustrates the need for having the original source information as well as having a reliable translator or guide.

Offline Gmuli

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 01:22:19 PM »
Quote

Unfortunately I am out of time at this moment, but will be back later to translate the rest if others want this. But I hope this illustrates the need for having the original source information as well as having a reliable translator or guide.

Awesome and of course we want, when you can. : )

Offline Sacrar

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2019, 01:36:33 PM »
Sacrar:
The day stem is Xin, so the void is different.
Nearest date with this combination was 11 September 2019, we can add that.

The hexagram drawn by Tientai and me has as its stem Xin, then the days in void are Yin and Mao. Both are correct.

Offline tanpai

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 03:54:10 PM »
@Gmuli ,
勾陈  Gou Chen -on line 5  and si gather with S shen!

Offline tanpai

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 04:16:11 PM »
Hi All,

When I was translating with Google, there was one thing I was interested in: how does hex. verify. hemangioma on the leg. I think it proves very well, even if it is Google
translation is incomplete.
„A lot of information has been left out, and many of the translation very off or misleading in what it means in English.”
I did not intend to translate every line into English, only the essence of medical diagnosis.
;D

Online Tientai

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Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2019, 06:12:44 PM »
Hi all ...
@tanpai  ..
I recognize your translation .. but i want to apologize. ..  with some difficulty on some parts that don't cleared out what they mean ..
Many members aren't familiar with Liu Yao terminology and that's a big problem to fathom on meanings..!!

Moreover all members are friends no one is against your opinion .. (I think you have good and friendly  intention too ).

I agree with
Quote
勾陈  Gou Chen -on line 5  and si gather with S shen!
You better could write :
5th line Si fire sitting on Gou Chen is making an alliance  (Liu He )  with Shi  (Self) 3rd Shen child line...

Tientai
 

Offline ren

Re: Liu Yao and tumors
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2019, 05:58:56 AM »
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