Quiz 15- Divination On my old (chronic) illness...

[Tientai ✝️]

... Dear Liu yao members
Try to evaluate your knowledge by deciphering on this Case ....
After some time I will give the answer from Wild Crane's Old man book ...

[Dao]

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[Tientai ✝️]

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To move Yin wood in tomb ‘mu’ line 1 needs a clash, when Shen EB metal appears it can ‘chong’ Yin wood EB, the line 1 moves.
Yin wood wealth generes Si fire officer/gost
Shen metal brother EB generes Hai water children ‘ying’ O
Si fire officer in return ‘chong’ Hai water children ‘ying’ O line 4 which is the cure
Shen metal brother, Si fire officer and Yin ‘Shi’ S will form ‘san xing’ three punishments.

... this last sentences are very meaningful to decipher. .... you made very good work for the overall estimation ... still let's wait for more opinions... to close this case ..!!
What will happened at the end with his illness ??

[Dao]

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[JLim (Darma W)]

First look is not good.  Self and Offspring lines suffer, while Illness line is strong.  Let's analyze further:

1) Fourth Offspring line is broken by the Month, and overcome by the Day.  Since Offspring represents doctor/medicine --> inauspicious
2) Self line goes into Day Tomb in this specific case  --> not surprising that he is in chronic illness
3) Self changes into Officer line (Illness), and it returns to clash the Offspring line. 
4) Shen Day or Shen Month will be critical to observe.  Self line Yin will be clashed (broken) by Shen, and Yin-Hai combination (Self and 4th line) will be cancelled.  #3 will occur, so no more affinity with the medication/treatment.
5) Si, Wu and Wei Month do not look good, because the Illness will be strong in these months, while Self is weak.  And then Shen Month looks even worse.  Oh well, this divination may be worse than the first look? 

Tientai, I would suggest to wait for a day or two for other members, especially since it's the weekend now.

[Dao]

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[Tientai ✝️]

ANSWER OF QUIZ 15


断曰：世爻寅木，化出巳火，寅能刑巳，三刑少申字，防申日之危。
Duan said: Shi/Self 1st yao have Yin - Wood, and changing to Si - Fire, Yin wood can Punish (Xing) Si - fire, [in ] three Punishments is missing one particle just as the Shen - metal, [ so ] guard from Shen - metal day from danger [engendering ].
果卒于申日申时。
The result is that [ the person ] died at Shen Day and Shen hour.
此乃少一字，待后来申日补之也，
There was a missing particle [ from 3 Punishments ], waiting afterwards Shen metal to supplement [ this principle  of 3 Punishments ]
岂可谓少一字不成三刑耶。
How it could even be said that the missing particle unable to fulfill the 3 Punishments ?

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寅刑巳，巳刑申，申刑寅，子刑卯，卯刑子。
Mao punishing Si, Si punishing Shen, Zi punishing Mao, Mao punishing Zi.

彼旧注又曰：寅巳申为三刑，若有寅巳二字，而无申字，或只有寅申两字，而无巳字，但少一字不成三刑.
Those former times people concentrated to the sayings : Yin - Si - Shen are the principle of 3 Punishments, it seem that having Yin - Si are 2 particles, and not Shen particle, and again Yin - Shen are 2 particles, and not Si particle, but even one is missing then the  fulfillment is not accomplished [of the principle of 3 Punishments].

[乾按]: 三刑得驗者少，皆因三刑俱全者少。
[Qian commented ] : Obtaining 3 Punishments in examination is rare, simply because every variety of 3 Punishments is seldom.
學者亦再作測驗，留意考證，若以其驗者甚少而疏漏，則謬矣。
Scholars also examined , taking care to textual research, as for reasons using this rarely and carelessly omitting it, then [by not using this principle ] can deceive someone.

[居士按] 三刑得驗確有卦例，通觀全卦生剋衝合，積累經驗，自然神通。
[Ju Shi commented ] : Obtaining 3 Punishments in examination is a real principe in an Hexagram, [ you viewing ] comprehensively in all Hexagram the birth, restrain, Clash, conjunction, accumulate experience [on it ] , [you will gain] natural remarkable ability (magical power !!!)

不因少見而不用，不因刑全而亂斷，須看用神之吉凶。
Don't think this [principle] is rare and not needed, don't think that this [3 Punishments principle] is complete and decide the judge, you have to take care [watch] useful God [Yongshen ] for good or bad luck.

又云：辰午酉亥，谓之自刑。
In Classics is written : Chen and Wu and You and Hai, is said that self punished.
丑戌相刑，戌未相刑。
Chou and Xu mutually punished, Xu and Wei mutually punished.

[Dao]

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[Sacrar]

3) Self changes into Officer line (Illness), and it returns to clash the Offspring line. 
4) Shen Day or Shen Month will be critical to observe.  Self line Yin will be clashed (broken) by Shen, and Yin-Hai combination (Self and 4th line) will be cancelled.  #3 will occur, so no more affinity with the medication/treatment.

This is very important JLIM, it's good that you named it in this case. I thought that two opposing branches where one represents the cure/medicine (Offsprings) and the other the disease (Official) meant a very effective remedy.

The term clash (chong) suggests that, effectively fighting the disease, but here you suggest that it would be the opposite, a confrontation is an ineffective remedy/medicine because it has no affinity for the disease?

then a Liu He or conjunction would be a more effective medicine, for example Si fire Offsprings who bound/Liu He and subdued Shen metal Official? Is that how you see it?

[JLim (Darma W)]

Sacrar, I had mentioned this:

1) Fourth Offspring line is broken by the Month, and overcome by the Day.  Since Offspring represents doctor/medicine --> inauspicious

[Sacrar]

Sacrar, I had mentioned this:

1) Fourth Offspring line is broken by the Month, and overcome by the Day.  Since Offspring represents doctor/medicine --> inauspicious

Mmm, confused. Then the ineffectiveness of the medicine is more because of the month breaker than because Hai offspring is clashing Si fire Officer?

[Tientai ✝️]

Hi . @Sacrar  ..
Apart of our dear Jlim s very nice and comprehensive analysis ... this case comes from the Wild Cranes Oldmans book ..
The lesson that teaches on this case example is the law of 3 punishments  (Yin - Si - Shen ) ..is very rare to happen but is a law one may take account ..!!

Ungrateful Punishment – Set out to do something good and get blame instead.
寅刑巳，巳刑申，申刑寅。
Yin punishing Si, Si punishing Shen, Shen punish yin

.. and only if 3 punishments can occur ...!! Not two can fulfil this law ..
A. Chiu uses only one punishment  (Yin - Si ) when happens on a moving line and its changed counterpart .. he named it (Trap ) .. I found this as real ..!!

[Sacrar]

I do understand, but I highlighted the JLIM phrase because it suggests the idea that a medicine (Child) that is the opposite of the disease (Official) may have little affinity and therefore little efficacy. It would happen with Zi-Wu, Yin-Shen, You-Mao, Si-Hai. But I'm not sure if that's the idea JLIM wanted to address.

3) Self changes into Officer line (Illness), and it returns to clash the Offspring line 
4) Shen Day or Shen Month will be critical to observe.  Self line Yin will be clashed (broken) by Shen, and Yin-Hai combination (Self and 4th line) will be cancelled.  #3 will occur, so no more affinity with the medication/treatment.

The opposition or clash suggests two elements creating repulsion between them, like a magnet that repels itself by the same pole. But of course, although in this example Hai water clash Si fire, there is devitalization (ke) in between, so I don't know what to think...

in short ignoring any of the other elements of a hexagram, ignoring also the influence of the day or month, moving lines, etc. For example:

A) Medicine Hai water; Disease Si fire (CHONG)
B) Medicine Si fire; Disease Shen metal (LIU HE)

Medicine A is ineffective, while Medicine B is more effective???