Western Astrology

[Milla]

Oh, let's not brag about anything, compete or prove anything. You are the best, judging by this bazi!
This is your natal, right?

[Gmuli]

I combine Western and Chinese astrology. for example my forecast for 2024:The Dragon is the 12th house by position, so everything secret and intimate will burst into our lives. Since the tree is an educational activity, I believe the peak of astrological education will be, although in recent years interest in astrology among ordinary people has increased significantly, but in 2024 all records will be broken. Therefore, go ahead! record courses, master classes, conferences, etc., etc. Also, since the dragon is wooden, this is an image of printed literature, which means that some kind of book will be published, the main book, an important book because the sign is imperial, so we keep an eye on the latest in astrological literature or the general release of secret materials.

Here is another interesting video about the Period Change:


Here there is the fascinating idea that its not just fire 9, but it also carries its yin aspect with Xun, so its 4-9 and it creates Metal.
Have you seen this way of formulating it before?

If we look Period 8, it does make sense to count both.
For example nature/climate activism as Wood Yang forcefully trying to change the structure, yet structure can't really change easily, as its "yang" aspect is image of "not moving".
With time that activism moving to images of Nature/Earth, then being hit by Yang Wood from corporations with sometimes greedy sometimes just new methods of creating resistance and backslash from people etc.
Same for many movements out there that showed up last few decades I think.

Covid and new technologies etc. all seem to be also valid if we add 3.Zhen as an Yin aspect of it creating Wood with Gen 8, as well.

And I find this fits as well, to what you said about metaphysical studies being more appreciated, although i Get you meant the next year, but with Plato in Aquarius, the Fire period may also carry Images of that, I'm starting to think... I don't know, though, we will see I guess.

But if that is the case, I could definitely appreciate some less 3.Zhen going on in the background I think..

The Dragon is the 12th house

Then Wu Horse as 10th house, this is interesting connection and, of course, it makes much sense, will look into it when I have a chance.

[Spiritsfan]

I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry  This is proof of a unified system.


Oh, let's not brag about anything, compete or prove anything. You are the best, judging by this bazi!
This is your natal, right?

Why did you spend 17 of the best years of your life on astrology?  What would be an example to prove that your astrology does not work?

 And usually a person’s answers tell more about him than the person wants .  This is not my data. 

I have a lot of data from people with autoimmune diseases.  This is a pressing issue.  In Taoist BaZi it is diagnosed in half a minute.  These are usually the pillars of a person's luck.  Or his closest relative.  This allows me to help people before the onset of illness.  And in other cases too.  Therefore, the fact that you left the competition shows that you do not have a system, and astrology does not work.  I won’t mock your forecast for 2024 now.  Time will do this naturally at the end of 2024.  And don't worry.  You are not the only one.  Who does not seek the truth, throwing false beliefs into the trash.

[Milla]

Why did you spend 17 of the best years of your life on astrology?  What would be an example to prove that your astrology does not work?

Oh no, I didn’t waste them in vain, I spent them with great benefit, comprehending this wonderful science and art at the same time. Mostly now I use Western astrology in answering specific questions (Horary astrology).

[Gmuli]

I'm talking about the accuracy of astrological forecasts and the history of astrology.  These questions have no impact on my happiness.  Replacing unprofessionalism with sophistry is a very cheap trick.  Surface.  But popular among metaphysicians .

Through time I've seen many that tried to sell me their gods. Some had good reasons for it... Others didn't.

For me, only reliable factor for someones belief system(and that is all we are talking about here, in my view) is how happy they are with what they are following/believing.
Their "professionalism" concerns me only if I buy goods or services from them. I don't see relevance of that in a free forum from random people I don't know. I don't expect professionalism in that setting, same way a I don't expect bus drivers to sing me songs.
Not that I mind, but none of us is there for that.

Their accuracy matters even less, even if I knew in what exactly target and scores they measure it, as I'm not in a tournament for "astrology" nor do I plan on joining one. Nor am I aiming for something in a free and open forum, so missing it doesn't seem big of a concern.

Their happiness, is the only real measure for a belief system, teaching and a god someone follows for me.
If someone doesn't seem happy with that they are following its unlikely to wonder more into what it is. And that can be perceived by their interactions with people around them, sometimes. Not always, there are other possible factors, but often enough.

So its not a trick. I'm not a pony. Is the only thing that matters for me and the fact you think how "professional" you are can replace it, seems strange in a free forum where professionalism has no relevance to what is happening.
As this is what mushrooms think, princes say. And we are not mushrooms.

[Spiritsfan]

@Gmuli

You wrote:
In his work he did mention "the old masters" he learned from... So where did it start... People, today seem to consider it was in Babylonian times. But if we read about Sumer, we can see much of the culture and religion from Babylon and Akkad, seem to have started from Sumer.
Same from the old testament(Torah), actually, situations there are also in Sumerian tablets, but in more detailed form...

Ptolemy himself writes about this.
In a somewhat simplified and brief form, we examined how prediction can be made using astronomy, and also showed that it cannot go beyond the events occurring in a person’s environment and their consequences for him, in other words, prediction concerns the natural properties and energy of the soul  and the body, their periodic illnesses, their endurance for a long or short period of time, in addition, all external circumstances with their inherent direct and natural connection with the original properties of nature, such as property and marriage, if we are talking about the body, and honor and  dignity, if we mean the soul, and, finally, it has to do with what happens to them from time to time[14].  The remainder of our work will consist of a brief answer to the question of the usefulness of predictions[15], and first we should indicate how and taking into account what final result we will consider the meaning of the word “benefit”.  If we turn to the qualities of the soul, what could be more useful for prosperity, joy and satisfaction in general than this kind of divination, by which we gain a complete understanding of the affairs of men and God?  And if we direct attention to the qualities of the body, then such knowledge, better than anything else, will make us feel what is suitable and appropriate for the potentialities of each temperament.  However, if prediction does not help in acquiring wealth, fame and the like, we are able to say the same about all philosophy, since it is not capable of providing for any of these things on its own.  Nevertheless, we should not look for a justification in this for our denial of both philosophy and the art of prediction, and ignore its considerable advantages.

Why don’t they talk about God in zodiac astrology now?  Mystery.

The Chaldean system [96 - This system, according to Boucher-Leclerc, is less “optimistic” than the systems of the Egyptians and Ptolemy himself, since it assigned larger terms and more first places in various signs to planets with unfavorable influence.] is based on consistency, undoubtedly  , simpler and more plausible, although not so complete from the point of view of managing trigons and distribution of values;  despite this, it can be easily understood even in the absence of a diagram [97 - In the “Paraphrase” of Proclus, this sentence is interpreted in such a way that it means the inability to perceive the Chaldean system without a diagram, due to the lack of the mentioned completeness in it.

. ..
At present, of the terms under consideration, in our opinion, those compiled according to the Egyptian system deserve the most confidence, both because the form used in their collection by the Egyptian authors gave them practicality and made them worthy of recording, and because  , that for the most part the degrees of terms do not contradict the birth charts that were created on their basis as an example.  However, since these same authors nowhere explain their classification or the values ​​​​they obtained, the lack of consensus in describing the system could probably become a subject of suspicion or an object of criticism.

Correct me.  Just in case.  But in Tetrabiblos it is directly written that Egyptian astrology is taken as a basis.  Wikipedia says that it is Sumerian.  I don't know if this is a joke or not.  Or specifically to identify people.  Who is a pro and who is not.  But why was this done?  And I'm not selling any Gods.  I only read ancient texts.

[Gmuli]

@Gmuli
Why don’t they talk about God in zodiac astrology now?  Mystery.

I think we may need a great definition of God to follow this. I will try to provide some summary of my view on the topic of old definitions of God, so we have what to start from. : )
Although I have to say I don't think the Chinese 神 has much to do with religion definition of God in most cases. Most religions, anyway.

I always enjoyed the idea metaphysics are the higher sciences. Stuff humanity hasn't collectively understood yet.
Since that is "higher sciences" and not "higher religions" I'm more comfortable without too many gods in there...

Does God suggest spirituality... Depends how we define spirituality. The way schools I enjoy do, it doesn't.
One think we view is that humanity, for a very long time worshiped what is called "planetary logos". That is the consciousness guiding the paths of people on Earth(very connected to the ionosphere, massive amounts of electricity in upper atmosphere).
But in the stream of consciousnesses we call "channel" this is a very near point of an endless path, more or less. Even the Sun(solar logos) is providing much more encompassing view. And so some worshiped the Sun.
Still very physical entity, however. With time, I would expect we will find more to worship. Other civilizations, seeding nations etc. And with some luck we may stop, someday, and figure out all is fellow travelers on an very long journey, just glimpses of it perceivable from Earth.

So the planetary Logos, however is still very physical entity, same as our personalities here on Earth, just a few initiations higher. Same for Solar Logos, although again, few initiations after that.
Does that mean we can become Logos someday... Sure, that is , in theory, how the whole process unfolds. Not to mention we already are for the endless amounts of cells, organs and levels in our physical body and nearby environment. In that sense, all the old "gods" were not spiritual, they were just fellow travelers on the same way we know.  Yet taking more encompassing roles or bringing down spiritual aspects reflected from above. But from very nearby steps of it.

Astrology is just influences of Rays and cosmic flows arriving at us, together with the structure reflecting same patterns in ever expanding nature, in my view.  So we don't need gods for astrology. Same as we don't need them for general magnetism/electricity.
Short way to say it - I'm not sure I can understand what you mean without an awesomely clear definition of what you mean by God. But it seems very different then what I view as god.  And while we do have the "Source" as perspective and understanding that is soo far away from all this, that doesn't have much relevance, even if logically it probably should.

So can you define what you mean by God?
I'm also not entirely sure what we are talking about, to be fair. : )
I see its related to old sources of astrology and to Gods(so religion, for back then, most often). But I don't get what about them?

If its about "did astrology come from Sumer" then... Well, we have Kabbalistic astrology that definitely doesn't seem to have come from Sumer. They believe it was "received" on top of a mountain and strange or not I'm inclined to believe an outside infusion connected to it... We have vedic astrology with sources from Sanskrit that also doesn't seem connected to Sumer.
So did all that came from Egypt. Don't know. But I doubt it. More so vedic then the others. As I think the sanskrit sources are old, aren't they?
I have reasons to enjoy the idea of other places something can come from even more so in sanskrit. : )

But all this is for historians, I'm really not focusing on that. I'm interested in ancient sources only in the cases they manage to keep the view of something, that lost purity in the centuries after that. So we connect and can perceive it more fully. That is not always the case, can't say its even "often" the case. But where something started, I really don't know. One of the reason I kept repeating "I don't know". : )

So I don't fully understand what we are talking about. If its about gods - I generally avoid gods in metaphysics. I think I explained why. There are exceptions of course, but does that fall into definition of "god" is something we have to work with clear definition to say.
If its about Egypt, I have doubts it started from that, who knows, with some crafty switcheroos maybe its possible for much of it, but I don't think for all, as explained. : )

[Spiritsfan]

@ Gmuli

I'm asking you about zodiac astrology.  And you tell me about yourself .  And Egyptian astrology has a number of very interesting and unique aspects.  Which, unfortunately, you know nothing about.  There's a lot you don't know.  But you don’t replenish knowledge.  And you write a lot of unnecessary text.  Sorry.  You definitely won. I don’t know how to waste time like that .

[Spiritsfan]

Taoism and Greek mythology have the same point. Every material object has a soul. Oceanids - goddesses of the ocean. Very melodic. This is a tip for those who want to make accurate Zodiac predictions. Where to look for hidden answers. For me, there are too many similarities in these two religions - they are also philosophical teachings. And nowhere else is there such a division. Symbolism. Caduceus - as a symbol of the rebirth of the soul successively into a man. In the next life into a woman. And the Kybalion perfectly reveals the nuances of BaZi. Still, Hermes is what is now called Ancient Greece.

[Shanee]

Haha.. this is interesting

[Ragdoll]

I have been in Chinese astrology for more than 10 years, and in Western astrology even more, about 17, and specifically in traditional astrology, not popular. I am well acquainted with project Hindsight. Such research as a horse and a pedestal is not sophistry  This is proof of a unified system.

Hello @Milla, I am also into medieval Western astrology as taught by Zoller, who was part of the Hindsight project, and who taught me through someone on a forum that I will not reveal here. I did not think I would find other practitioners of this astrology on this forum. I am glad that this is the case.

[Milla]

Hello, @Ragdoll
Small world!