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Author Topic: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?  (Read 10339 times)

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Offline Tientai ✝️

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Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« on: May 16, 2020, 07:51:59 PM »
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There is not any problem with Wu -4th moving line Coz this is a moving line that combines itself  (Wu -- Wei ). . So Wu fire not affect Zi hidden 5th line ..
But there is another Wu Fire, which is the Month Branch.  Month Break is caused by the Month Branch.

Dear master Jlim...
My focus is directed on the Lin (or Self bound branches ..!!) Rarely is seen in Liu Yao  studies  .. but i have used many times successfully. .!!
So I noticed month branch Wu although breaking Self Shen line .. is Lin with Wu moving line .. (bounding ).                                                 
This can explain there isn't any bad affect from within the Hexagram  ... !!
On the other hand is ominous from exterior just as month break Wu. fire against metal ..!!
..
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 07:55:41 PM by Tientai »

Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 09:57:53 PM »
Hi Tientai, do you mean to say that when when Wu moves to combine with Wei, this moving Wu cannot overcome Shen? 

I don't understand the term Lin that you use.  As far as I know, in Chinese Lin 臨/临 means "arrival", not combination or binding.  For example, in this hexagram the Chinese may say "fifth line Lin Offspring" =  Offspring arrives on the fifth line.
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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2020, 08:15:15 AM »
Hi Tientai, do you mean to say that when when Wu moves to combine with Wei, this moving Wu cannot overcome Shen? 


Dear Jlim hi, yes Wu moves to combine with Wei (Liu He ).. as long as this alliance ocure Wu doesn't overcome Shen .. that's ok .

My thesis on (Lin - bound ) perhaps is erroneously expressed and please sorry for this ...!!
I have taken from classic Bazi ... as a cluster of four punishments  四刑 (Si Xing ).. i refering particularly the fourth punishment that is named as : Self punishmen 自刑 .. Wu - Wu  / You - You  / Chen - Chen / Hai - Hai /
Wild Cranes book there is a refferance only but not using it ....
Other Authors are expressed on "self punishment " .. as "Self bounding " ...
That's the case I use it ... !!

Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2020, 08:26:27 AM »
To clarif what you are thinking... In this hexagram, Wu Horse cannot overcome Shen because of which interaction below?
1) Wu is self-punished by Wu Month
2) Wu combines with Wei
3) Both 1 and 2

By the way, I do not use self-punishment at all.  Not in Liu Yao, and not in Bazi. 
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Offline Tientai ✝️

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2020, 08:55:05 AM »
Both 1 and 2 ...
I noticed by using self punishment many times that behave as stuckness or bounding (in movement of a line  !!)..                                   
Was easy to observe this law in Liu yao cases ...
I have posted many cases with this law by error naming (as Lin ).. !!
Thanks for pointing out ..


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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 09:26:45 AM »
Quote
I noticed by using self punishment many times that behave as stuckness or bounding (in movement of a line  !!)..                                   
Was easy to observe this law in Liu yao cases ...
I have posted many cases with this law by error naming (as Lin ).. !!
Thanks for pointing out ..
I tested some stuff related to that for a while. At the end was testing the idea that combination prevents movement.
So lets say we have a moving line:


In first case Si line will be moving and also will be stronger, from the combination with the Month and Day.


In the second example first line would not be moving because of the combination with the day. However, it is still stronger form that same combination.

The idea here is that combination will strengthen line and at the same time will change its movement. So a not moving line will become moving while a moving line will become not moving.

Now, in this way in my experience there is something to it. So much that I added the colors to the lines.
However, with time I found it just isn't everything there is more to it makign it unreliable to use in this way.

The popular idea is that clash makes a line moving, that seems to be accepted everywhere. But the idea combination will make line moving is rarer, while the idea combination will prevent moving is more often seen around.

Self punishment I don't use, as I view it as the same thing represented somewhere else or from something else.

Anyway, so for the "combination" part I think I agree, with the idea of not moving/or creating some sort of - if not movement, at least charge in the line. 

(all this is from day and month, not from other lines, more often then not it seems)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 09:34:27 AM by Gmuli »

Gmuli

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 10:35:16 AM »
Well, I think I should clarify - line becoming "moving" or "frenzied moving" or "hidden moving" from clash is something so easy to see that I don't think it needs confirmation at this point and I think we all agree there.

So its left to how it works in relation to combination with day and month. And that remains to be cleared up.

Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 11:08:54 PM »


In first case Si line will be moving and also will be stronger, from the combination with the Month and Day.

Hi Gmuli, can you share what case 1 was all about, and what the outcome was?
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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 11:27:48 PM »


In first case Si line will be moving and also will be stronger, from the combination with the Month and Day.

Hi Gmuli, can you share what case 1 was all about, and what the outcome was?

This was just random hexagrams to show moving line. I can post real questions but all will be for health and food
(how would my health be if I eat specific food)

I'm not sure its a good idea, though, coz its somewhat grim to go into that, I'm used to it, as much as someone can get used to it I guess...
 But if it doesn't bother anyone can post some real examples, this specific rule was based on a lot however(I think around 10-15).

Gmuli

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2020, 09:09:55 AM »
It has a context, though. There is a story... Same one that is the reason I'm learining the Five Arts now, why we make free calculators and everything else. But its long and it can't have happy ending now, as too much was lost on the way already.
So considering that currently people have enough problems on their own, will skip that. Will post it someday probably, as someone asked me to some time ago...

So lets just say that for the last 5-6 years I ask for health related questions and before I eat anything. Initially was with Mei Hua from Tsung Hwa Jou method... Then moved to text with the lines from Wilhelm. Then to Liu Yao. I didn't record them first few years, as I needed to know more to be able to get what is happening and figuring out some rules. I record them last year more or less.

What I'm using. Most of the stuff is either accepted in the literature. Images are mostly from Harmen's materials as I already mentioned I enjoy the info there. The approach is what I have found working with time, using what I found useful from Puppylove, the Monks health example, Harmens materials and experience with asking so much about that.

Self line - representation of me when it comes to health.
Asset/Wealth - representing food.

What to look for problems:
Officer - possible problem.
Line attacking self line - possible problem.
Too many images of bleeding(white tiger etc.) or something like that - possible problem.

The line matters. Second or third line often would point to the large intestine and digestion stuff... Yet it isn't enough as in this example, we can see the major problem is connected to line 1 and that is showing the digestion, yet if we took it as a 100% thing we would expect it to be on higher line.

In my current approach I have concluded that problem can happen if Officer is moving. If Officer is too strong, or there are too many places showing stuff related to a problem.
Same for the line attacking self line(the hostile, enemy or whatever we want to call it).

So on the real question - combinations and moving lines.
I have to say first that at this point I'm very happy with the results, its very rare that there is a problem and I don't know why. So most of these work like I use it for me, there are still exceptions but I would day its so rare now that it doesn't matter much. Yet some of these rules are best cleared out with that.

However, there is more to it. Lets look example from yestarday. This is "my health if I make and eat falafels with eggs and other stuff":


All the stuff that was beneficial didn't seem possible to do, so I ended up doing this one as the least "worse" result.
Yet there were problems and that didn't seem visible right away for me at least.

This was the second question about falafels, first one was without eggs, just falafels as a general direction.

So as I said there were problems with digestion and with other stuff. Perfectly reflected by the hexagram, goes like this:

https://www.bright-hall.net/wwg/16,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,2,2020-05-17,09:47


Wei is asset, storage of wood. Wood is what attacks the self line. Some idea there is something going on with food. Its part of Kun Trigram, showing digestion and stomach. So now some idea about food and digestion. Its moving to Water, while havint a hidden water line behind it. Both water and White Tiger can be seen as represented fluids, blood or bleeding.

Zi is in void - here comes the rule that The Monk explained, so it isn't supported by the day yet is clashing the Others line that is very strong already.

That isn't all, however.
Here comes the other idea, Si in the Month combines with Shen as the Officer.
Again the idea of a problem, means Shen is "moving" now and that is what I meant before.
Shen is on Curved Array, suggesting some entanglement.
Zhen suggests something related to sudden simptoms that could be related to mental/emotional stuff, so worries, fears etc. can come up. Line 5 near the head suggests the same thing.
Shen as Yang Metal can show the head as well.

Summary : Problem with digestion, fluids or bleeding(or both), also separate from that problems with worries, fears, hyperactivity etc. Both related to fire.
It happened like that.

That also seems to be related to the heat and fire, as Shen moves because of Si, on others line we have Wu clashing Zi, so all around the place the fire of the frying may be seen as a problem.

I can post more as am working with hundreds of these(maybe more), but the whole idea is always the same and it works almost all the time with very high accuracy. In this case the combination does show that what is happening with the line(Shen in this case) starts to become more interesting to look at. Its not a very important problem - just some worries and fears in this case, yet it is there. : )

I don't think I should post more, though. As already mentioned this can be difficult times for people all around the world when we look at stuff related to health, so we probably need more happy and balanced topics and examples around. At other times we can go back into this and I may go into the whole story of why I started learning Feng Shui to begin with.

P.S. And yes  I know we use different rules and not everyone here would read it like that... Yet I have more then enough reasons to keep using what I'm using, until I'm sure a specific rule is better then what I already know(and that is rare to see).
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 09:21:36 AM by Gmuli »

Offline JLim (Darma W)

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 09:53:20 AM »
Thank you for sharing your personal case, Gmuli.

Wei is asset, storage of wood. Wood is what attacks the self line. Some idea there is something going on with food. Its part of Kun Trigram, showing digestion and stomach.
Yes, Wood could attack the Self line, but not in this case.  Mao Wood is weak by Month and Day, and it's not moving. 

Zi is in void - here comes the rule that The Monk explained, so it isn't supported by the day yet is clashing the Others line that is very strong already.
Zi Water does get supported by the Day (Shen Metal).  He said "void cannot support others", but this is referring to a void line.  There are different layers in a hexagram.  Month and Day belong to the highest level.

Here comes the other idea, Si in the Month combines with Shen as the Officer.
Again the idea of a problem, means Shen is "moving" now and that is what I meant before.
Shen is on Curved Array, suggesting some entanglement.
Shen exists within the Month, so Shen is strong.  In my opinion, it's not the combination with Day Si that lends to its strength (or "moving" as you said).
About Curved Array as Six Animals, Illness (Officer line) coming with this Animal is an indication of digestive issue.  It's because Curved Array is of earth element, and earth is digestion. 
Quote
Zhen suggests something related to sudden simptoms that could be related to mental/emotional stuff, so worries, fears etc. can come up. Line 5 near the head suggests the same thing.
I would rather see Zhen giving a hint about the liver. 
Quote
Shen as Yang Metal can show the head as well.
And Shen showing a possible issue with the large intestines.

I like falafel by the way.  So, finally have you given up falafel?  I don't know when you raised this hexagram.  Not only do I not see the hour, but also the year.  There seems to be ample space for Year and Hour in this screenshot.

When you reply, you're welcome to quote my post, but please quote only the relevant parts of it.
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Gmuli

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 10:03:26 AM »
Question is from yesterday. : )
About the other stuff - as already mentioned I know we use different rules. I have reasons to stick to what I'm using currently, until I have very good reason to change it. And in this case for much of these I have tested a lot. : )

Gmuli

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 10:22:09 AM »
Quote
Zi is in void - here comes the rule that The Monk explained, so it isn't supported by the day yet is clashing the Others line that is very strong already.
Zi Water does get supported by the Day (Shen Metal).  He said "void cannot support others", but this is referring to a void line.  There are different layers in a hexagram.  Month and Day belong to the highest level.

If we look at the cat example, the cat line is also supported by the day, but in void. : )



Offline Tientai ✝️

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 07:09:20 PM »
Dear @Gmuli  ..As an information :
Falafel is high in many micronutrients and a good source of fiber and protein. As such, it may help curb your appetite, support healthy blood sugar, and lower your risk of chronic disease. Yet, it's typically deep-fried in oil, which raises its fat and calorie content..
https://www.bright-hall.net/wwg/16,1,0,0,0,0,0,3,2,2020-05-17,09:47


From my post on CAUSE OF DISEASE ... there is quotation ..Reply #17 on: December 30, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
http://fivearts.org/index.php?topic=900.0
You are a case B  ..
My explanation is your health condition is light (non problematic ) but is not so healthy formula to continue this way ...
Hold this ..don't have time to explain at now ... !!


« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 07:22:13 PM by Tientai »

Gmuli

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Re: Liu Yao interaction: does combination prevent movement?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 07:18:03 PM »
Dear @Gmuli  ..As an information :
Falafel is high in many micronutrients and a good source of fiber and protein. As such, it may help curb your appetite, support healthy blood sugar, and lower your risk of chronic disease. Yet, it's typically deep-fried in oil, which raises its fat and calorie content..

Its one of those things that looks so much like meat, most people don't even know it isn't. : )
I eat all sorts of burgers like that, this one is awesome:

https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/vegetables-recipes/the-best-vegan-burger/
(would just recommend to not add flour, it won't hold its shape as a real burger, but it will be sooo much better),

Its the most underrated burger out there in my view. : )